talkpolitics | Entries tagged with secession

When a President said that the Constitution didn’t apply to him and his cult, and encouraged armed insurrection, why wouldn’t we expect copycats?

Massachusetts police ID suspects in armed highway standoff

Did not know about these folks before today. From another source:

"The group, self-identified as the Rise of the Moors, live-streamed its standoff on Saturday on its YouTube page, in which its leader, identified on the group’s website as Jamhal Talib Abdullah Beym, said the group is “not anti-government” and was being “extra careful” not to violate the federal laws of the United States.

Two group members held a Moroccan flag throughout the exchange, a tenet of the Pawtucket, Rhode Island-based group’s ideology. The flag stems from the the largely Black group’s belief that “a 1787 treaty (fictitious) between the United States and Morocco grants them immunity from U.S. law,” according to the Southern Poverty Law Center."

Hmmm. I'm sure the "I don't recognize your laws" will go over well with the judge.

Besides. There is a 1787 treaty with Morocco, the first country that recognized us, but I don’t think it says what they think it says.

Also, the territory they claim they lived in at the time (which they didn't) wasn't part of the US, but would have been part of New France prior to the Louisiana Purchase, so even if there was a treaty between the US & Morocco (which there wasn't), it wouldn't cover them. There would need to have been a treaty between Morocco and the French Republic (which there wasn't), which would have been null & void when Napoleon took over anyhow, and would have been doubly void when the territory was sold to the US.

Oh, and if this group believes it has “immunity from US law,” then why were they being “extra careful to not violate any federal laws of the United States?” Seems like a group of contradictory attention seekers to me.

nairiporter

The political slogan of Ethiopian president Abiy Ahmed is "Medemer", union. But his reforms, aimed at unifying ethnically diverse Ethiopia, have re-ignited the lingering ethnic and political divisions, and put the very integrity of Africa's second most populous country at risk. Ethiopia's unity is now facing its greatest challenge. The military conflict between the government and the Tigray separatists TPLF in the north has raged for a month.

The TPLF presents the conflict as a fight for the rights of the 10 autonomous regions of Ethiopia against an over-reaching president who is determined to centralise power in his own hands. They argue that Abiy Ahmed's policies discriminate against the people of Tigray, and his rule is an "illegal, unitarist, personal dictatorship". The central government, on the other hand, is denying any attempts to centralise control of the country.

( Read more... )

mahnmut

Show love to your semi-autonomous regions before they have somewhere else Togo, as some day they may be Ghana!

Ghana's Western Togoland region declares sovereignty

asthfghl

The referendum in Catalonia and the ensuing turmoil have again raised the question of the political integrity of the national state, but also the integrity of the European project. The idea of a Europe of the regions was supposed to be driving integration, and establishing direct connections between the subnational political subjects and the supranational European institutions, bypassing and transcending the national governments and gradually diminishing their significance.

This concept was developed in the 70s and 80s, it was supported with lots of program documents and plans, it was argumentated through the principles of solidarity stated in the EU agreements, and in the 90s it even got its own institution, the Commission of Regions. But despite the huge desire of the regions to have more autonomy, and the EU's drive for further integration and bypassing the governments, the efforts in that direction have failed, while the evident progress in the last decade is mostly due to factors like the globalizing economic environment, not institutional planning.

( Read more... )

fridi

The drunken euphoria of any nation is usually followed by a painful hangover. Catalunya was no exception. After a night of celebrating the proclaimed independence, it's time for sobering up. And lots of questions.

First batch of questions. How exactly is that independent state going to be realized? Who will recognize it? What will be the reaction to Article 155 of the Spanish constitution being invoked (namely: Madrid taking over the Catalan autonomy)? What will be the effect of the decision of the central government to fire the entire Catalonian government and parliament? What will the calls for civil disobedience and peaceful resistance and defense of the local institutions, issued by the leading separatist parties, ultimately lead to? Where will the funds come from for sustaining the newly proclaimed republic, since its entire financial system has long been under Madrid's control, and businesses both large and small keep fleeing the province?

( Read more... )

fridi

Catalonia. Referendum. Independence. Violence. Battle scenes accompanying an illegal, unconstitutional referendum for secession. All of this has clouded the sober assessment of the whole process of Catalonia's drive for independence. Many, regardless of their alignment, whether they sympathize with the Catalan irredentists or the supporters of Spain's territorial integrity, have allowed their opinions to be affected by Madrid's firm actions.

The last couple of decades have seen a dominance of the liberal notion in Europe that the state (i.e. the police) shouldn't be beating up its own citizens, no matter what sort of madness they may descend into. If it starts beating them up, it means that state is neither democratic nor European, not to mention civilized. It seems Europe has a rather short memory, it has forgotten the way Margaret Thatcher used to bash IRA, or, while we're about Spain, how Luiz Carrero Blanco used to treat ETA.

In reality, the very idea of statehood is mostly associated with the territory that this statehood encompasses, and the borders denoting it. And if someone dares violate the territorial integrity of a state and tries to alter its borders, that state has the full moral right to use force to defend itself. The acceptable norms and limits of that force are stipulated in the Geneva Convention, not by the "consciousness of public opinion". Which, by the way, was confirmed by the Spanish king the other day. And by the European Commission, too.

( So how about shedding all emotions here )

asthfghl

Serbia accuses world of double standards over Catalonia and Kosovo

See, two principles have reigned over international politics ever since the end of WW2.

1) Territorial integrity is sacrosanct.
2) Peoples have the right of self-identification.

These two ideas were supposed to keep international peace. And to a large extent, they did. For a time. But there's a significant problem here. As you can see, these two principles are in direct conflict with each other. Various sides have often referred to either #1 or #2 in their political endeavors, particularly when the ethnic, religious and hence territorial identification of certain groups, nations and countries is in question.

When the Kosovo Albanians (a majority in Kosovo) decided to self-identify as a separate territorial entity, they cited principle #2. We have the right to be whoever we want to be. Naturally, Serbia cited the other principle, #1. Our territorial integrity is sacrosanct. The international community decided to take a side in this conflict, seemingly because they were horrified by Milosevic's atrocities, but in Realpolitik terms, because Serbia was Russia's last remaining geopolitical proxy in the Balkan region, and they had to be brought out of the big game.

When the Crimean Russians (a majority in Crimea) decided to self-identify and split away from Ukraine, then join Russia, they also cited principle #2. We have the right to be whoever we want to be, and join whomever we want. Naturally, Ukraine cited the other principle, #1. Our territorial integrity is sacrosanct. The international community decided to take a side here as well, seemingly because the Russian separatists were doing Putin's bidding, and he wanted to teach Ukraine a lesson for wanting to join the West. But in Realpolitik terms, because Crimea is a key strategic area that grants control over the Black Sea region, and Russia had to be denied that.

( Read more... )

asthfghl

Iraqi Kurdistan in historic independence vote

Today, the people of Iraqi Kurdistan (and those territories currently contested between Baghdad and Erbil) will be voting on an independence referendum. The poll, initiated by the president of the Kurdish autonomy Masoud Barzani, is expected to win in a landslide.

Of course this doesn't mean there'll be a new country in Northern Iraq on the next day after the referendum. It's entirely possible that the referendum itself, whose legitimacy is being contested by the central authorities in Baghdad, could be a diplomatic game by Barzani, who is hoping to earn some points at the domestic political front. Like using the issue of Kurdish independence to marginalize his domestic opponents, and use the referendum to earn further concessions and benefits from the central Iraqi government.

It's become patently clear by now that the Kurdish people want their independence more badly than their leaders do. Still, there are at least five reasons why Europe and the EU should consider recognizing the result of the referendum.

( Read more... )

fridi

The term has gone out of use for quite a while. In recent decades it was being seen as a disparaging term used by Russian nationalists and pro-Russian Ukrainian "traitors" who believe Ukraine should be part of neo-imperial Russia.

And now it's being resurrected, and in quite a quasi-official way:

Separatists proclaim a new state to replace all of Ukraine

In comes one Alexander Zakharchenko, leader of the separatist People's Republic of Donetsk, the runaway region in East Ukraine that no one, not even Russia has recognized as a state. His actions in proclaiming the creation of the Republic of Malorussia (Russia Minor) have come as a surprise even to the Kremlin. Naturally, the EU deems it unacceptable, and Kiev is vowing to restore the territorial integrity of Ukraine.

( Read more... )

abomvubuso.livejournal.com

https://media1.britannica.com/eb-media/20/6220-004-5D922DDB.jpg

A number of religious and ethnic conflicts are brewing again in the West Balkans, and the situation is starting to get dangerous. There are quite a few quarrels on that relatively small territory, some bigger, others smaller. Among them:

- The quarrel between Slovenia and Croatia about their sea border in the Gulf of Piran, as well as in the mountainous area of Sveta Gera.
- The quarrel between Croatia and Serbia about several islands inside the Danube river, including Sarengrad and Vukovar.
- The attempts of Republika Srpska, which is part of Bosnia and Herzegovina, to join Serbia.
- The demands of the Croats in Bosnia and Herzegovina (14% of the population) to join Croatia.
- The secessionist movement in North Kosovo by ethnic Serbs who want to join Serbia.
- The demands of the Albanians in South Serbia to join Kosovo.
- The attempts of the Serbs in Montenegro (about half the population) to bring the country back into a union with Serbia.
- The quarrel between Croatia and Montenegro about the Prevlaka peninsula in the Bay of Tivat, etc.
Right now, the relations between the former Yugoslav republics are the worst since the time of the last Balkan Wars in 1991/2001. More and more republics and national-ethnic formations on the Balkans are calling for major map redrawals and federalisation of the existing states. This has caused quite a few analogies to 1912 (the Balkan Wars) and 1914 (WW1), as well as the early 90s (the collapse of Yugoslavia).

( Read more... )

luzribeiro.livejournal.com

For Nicola Sturgeon, a second Scottish independence referendum is win-win

"If Downing Street agrees to hold it, Yes start as favourites. If Theresa May blocks a vote, the nationalists' big argument is only strengthened."

It's kind of sad that Scotland has to resort to threats with secession in order to have its arguments heard in London.

Seems like now both May and Sturgeon are in a stalemate. Theresa wants to ignore the Scottish and Ulsterian vote, and in turn these guys cannot allow that to happen because they'd look like empty pawns. So ultimately, something has got to give. Either a compromise has to be reached, or this will escalate.

That said, I'd say it's a bit too early. Perhaps Scotland needs to wait for at least a few more years before they make another attempt, or until a time when there is absolute consensus in Scotland that this is what they want to do. If she does this now it would look hasty and desperate. And the question would arise if a third referendum wouldn't be likely shortly thereafter, and this makes the whole point of referenda kind of... well, pointless. But there is obviously tremendous support for independence in Scotland. It is understandable that at this moment the SNP would like to exploit widespread anger over the EU referendum north of the English border. The nationalists also have most of the seats in the region, so they sure are feeling emboldened.

In any case, Brexit itself, no matter if they opt for the soft or hard version (more likely the latter), is a major constitutional change for the UK. And let's not forget that Scotland voted overwhelmingly No. It would've been naive to expect Scots complying with what was mostly an English decision without any reaction. IMO, such a huge constitutional shift definitely legitimizes demands for an independence referendum. The PM begged Scotland to stay at the 2014 referendum, and kept repeating the point that it was a union of equal nations. That Scotland had a completely equal status to England in the union. If an issue such as leaving the EU has to be decided and it's good for England but bad for Scotland, then some kind of compromise has to be reached, otherwise how are the two nations equal?

dreamville-bg.livejournal.com

"Last night’s demonstrations across the country have brought some serious activist conversations about Brexit-style separation of the western states." -- DailyKos

Over-raction, a little bit? Or a long-running sentiment on part of the West Coast? Have they felt so disenfranchised by the policies of the rest of the country that they'd want out? I mean, there's the sentiment that the West Coast has had money, business and agriculture siphoned away from them in order to fund the dysfunctional policies of the rest of the country, and moreover, places like Oregon, California and Washington state have a remarkable difference in terms of values from the other states. How true is that, from an insider's perspective (I hope our Californian friends could share some insights here).

It's hardly a surprise that after this election we've seen such support for succession growing. Some people have been advocating for this for years, and now they're joined by others who've never thought of supporting the idea. Is it emotion or a calculated push, now precipitated by Trump's victory? And how possible is it at all? I mean, wouldn't Trump just send the military to squash this pesky rebellion, if it ever existed anywhere beyond the heads of some people? The US wouldn't want to lose access to the Pacific, would it?

On a side note, if these states were to (hypothetically) leave, possibly joined by British Columbia, wouldn't that be yet another serious blow for the Democrats? I mean, those are a lot of liberal votes...

luzribeiro.livejournal.com

This has become the fad of the day, eh? From Scotxit-2 to Finxit to Slovakxit... now to Texit. Trump doesn't seem impressed, though. He believes Texas loves him. The same way he believed the Scots loved the Brexit (which they don't of course).

But seriously. A real Texas secession movement does not exist. This is just some crank on Twitter who wants attention.

Gov. Perry joked about the idea in 2009 and someone actually conducted a poll to measure support for secession in Texas. The result was 3/4 against, which is approximately the same level of support for secession in other states.

This does not matter though, because Texas cannot secede from the United States even if the vote were 99-1, nor is there any mechanism by which the 30 million Americans living in Texas could be denied US citizenship outside of an Amendment to the Constitution.

Texas' membership in the United States expires only when the sun explodes. There is an argument that the US could split into smaller states (California, I'm looking at you), but these would all be US member states.

But... just imagine! Texas splitting away, and naming W their prez! Wouldn't that be awesome? :-)

luvdovz.livejournal.com

The separatist parties in Catalunya have won the regional parliamentary election, sending a clear signal to Madrid, just three months before the upcoming general election.

Artur Mas, president of the autonomous government and leader of the main separatist coalition "Junts pel si" (Together for 'Yes') said that this was a double victory, because democracy had also won. 1.6 million voters cast their ballots, which is an amazing 77.4% turnout. The Yes camp won 62 seats in the 135 seat parliament. Mas would need 68 seats to form a majority. So he said he'll be seeking to form a coalition with the anti-capitalist CUP, which is the only other political force outside the separatist coalition that is prone to support them. With their 8.2% of the vote, CUP becomes the 6th party in the provincial parliament (10 seats). This could give Mas the needed majority if he manages to court that party. So he's been sounding pretty confident that he could amass an absolute majority and continue with the separatist agenda. Because both his party and CUP have separately stated before that if they get a combined majority, they'd declare independence in a year and a half.

( Read more... )

tcpip.livejournal.com

Separatism in 2014

There were five major attempts at national self-determination that caught the attention of the world last year. The first, most well recognised in the Anglophone world, was the Scottish independence referendum. The second, more well known among the continental Europeans, was the Catalan Self-Determination Referendum. The third, as an long on-going concern, was an attempt by Palestine to have the UN Security Council resolve to end the occupation of the West Bank by 2017 and establish Palestine as a state. The fourth is the pro-Russian secessionist groups in eastern and southern Ukriane, already subject to it's own review on this site. The fifth, perhaps more commonly overlooked of because the process of it's establishment, is the Syrian Kurdistan.

( Read more... )

Technology, that most relentless cause of social change, directs us to a world of increasing movements of capital and labour and an increasingly global issues. However the organisations that do have an international perspective that includes civil liberties and democratisation of resources - such as the International Labour Organisation, the World Social Forum, and the International Union for Land Value Taxation, the Free Software Foundation - are hampered by the relative size, their institutional restrictions, and - most of all - the lack of a theoretically grounded model that combines the emancipatory potential that each of them offer. Whilst this remains unresolved, one should expectation of conflicts between "liberal imperialism" and "nationalist popularism" to continue.

(Posted a couple of minutes ago from The Isocracy Network).

ddstory.livejournal.com

One day it was there, then it was gone. The whole drama about the Catalan independence referendum has been dragging on for months, and it's far from over.

First there was Scotland, and now Spain's richest province which already has some autonomy, is fed up with carrying the poorer Spanish regions on its back, and has decided to flirt with secession a little bit. Last month the Catalan president Artur Mas signed a decree for a referendum on November 9. But the central government in Madrid were prepared to do everything to prevent that from happening. They requested from the Constitutional Court to declare the referendum illegal. The court did block the vote until it could come up with a final decision - and conveniently, that could take years.

( Read more... )

ddstory.livejournal.com

Your marriage is creaking somewhat. Things are so serious that you're already contemplating a split-up. You even file the divorce documents, although your S.O. will have none of it. But in the last moment, the arguments for preserving your relationship prevail by a tiny margin, and you make a step back. You remain together, but the damage has been done - your relations that were already in splinters have suffered a hard blow. So how do you think, what are your chances of living together happily ever after?

Well, that's how Scotland and Britain are like, right now. Their 300+ y.o. union may've survived, but although 55% of the Scots said "No" to seceding the other day, the political shake-up in the wake of that vote is sure to keep echoing for quite a while now.

No doubt, the feeling of relief must've been immense in some circles. But no one had expected that the tension would be so huge, either. And all questions starting with "What if Scotland secedes" will remain alarmingly real. And these vary from curious ponderings on whether the remainder of UK would have to keep the Union Jack, to serious issues like what currency the new independent state would be using, and how severely Britain's international standing would suffer.

( How the hell did it all come to this, then? )

johnny9fingers.livejournal.com

Apparently our Roops has come out in favour of Scottish Independence.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/10/rupert-murdoch-hints-support-scottish-independence

So does the panel think that it's now all over bar the shouting? Or is there still some game in the old Union?

Nevertheless, when the Scots break the Union, the West-Lothian question will have been answered once and for all as far as Scots MP's are concerned, and for many English folk, that will be a good thing.

I think though, that despite being a unionist myself, if the Scots want to go, they should go. It's not an economic decision, it is one of national identity, emotion, and sentiment. And being a poor Scot may well feel better than being a marginally less poor Briton. But being only half-Celt myself, the emotional doesn't sway me entirely, and I'm cynical about how this will look when the Navy shipyards relocate to Portsmouth, and the Banks to London.

htpcl.livejournal.com

~~Buna seara, plictisit prietenii mei~~! Ev'ning, m'dear bored fellows! Today I'm gonna occupy you with the story of a people who live so far away from you that you probably wouldn't care to try locating them on the map, even after I tell you how funny the name of their ethnic group sounds. Thing is, for them the EU is something bad, very bad. You see, obviously Brussels desperately wants to strangle their economy by insisting on painful modernization, while refusing to buy their glorious agricultural products. Romania is threatening them with cultural and social assimilation, and is hungry for territory. And in this disastrous situation where dangers lurk behind every corner, the only possible savior is... Russia.

That's how European integration looks in the eyes of the ethnic minorities in Moldova, the tiny country that neighbors on Ukraine to the south-west. Many Russians and Ukrainians in Transnistria, and Bulgarians and Gagauz in Gagauzia are concerned that Chisinau's cordial relations with Brussels could endanger their civil rights. While everyone was preoccupied with Russia's geopolitical retaliation to Ukraine's decision to side with Brussels, last month Moldova quietly signed an association agreement with the EU, which only fuels these fears some more, and gives new momentum to all the separatist rhetoric.

( Read more... )

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Talk politics.

A place to discuss politics without egomaniacal mods.

Entries tagged with secession

Pawtucket is a weird fuckin place

The boomerang of reconciliation

Friday nonsense. Togo or not Togo?

The Holy European Empire

Catalunya: what now?

The double-edged sword

Re: Catalonia

Support Kurdistan, why don't we!

Russia Minor!?

The powder keg is warming up again

Something's brewing in Scotland (and it ain't ale)

Wow, this is going a bit too far

Texit!? Bullshit.

Catalunya: A Pyrrhic victory

Nations, Self-Determination, and The Future Political Landscape

Not truly Scotland

The (still) united kingdom

It's the Scottish Sun what won it!

One more potential source of instability in East Europe

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May 2025

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