You're a Mean One, Grinch Alert

[paft.livejournal.com]

Robert Jeffress:

Well, you know every year people bemoan the War on Christmas and I thought, “Let’s do something positive about it,” so we created this website, Grinchalert.com, it allows people to go on our website and, uh, if they’ve encountered a business that shuns Christmas they can talk about it and put that business on the naughty list but if they find a business that celebrates Christmas, they can put that business on the nice list. It’s just a fun way to say to businesses and organizations, “You don’t have to bow to political correctness. It’s okay to say, “Merry Christmas…”

John Roberts: What if businesses who are on the naughty list lose customers?... Would it be a good idea to affect people’s business at this season, which can be make or break for some people, and in this economic climate?

Jeffress: John, let me make it clear, we have never even hinted at a boycott…

"Never even hinted at a boycott?" Really? Here’s what Jeffress said on Fox:

Jeffress: One great example in the Dallas area, there was a bank that took down a Christmas tree because they said it would offend customers. Well, there was another bank that got put on our nice list, the Providence Bank, because they put up a nativity scene. The CEO told me yesterday that there were customers changing from the bank that removed the Christmas tree, and they’re flocking to his bank.

Gretchen Carlson: You are not calling for a boycott of any of these businesses….

Jeffress: Oh, not at all, not in any way! You know, there’s a Mexican restaurant you mentioned that was saying Happy Holidays, but our family still goes there every week…

Watch the latest video at video.foxnews.com

So it’s all about reassuring businesses. Honest! It’s all about making them feel nice and safe. He’s not advocating a boycott.

But he’s delighted to share as an example that little story of a bank losing customers because they took down a Christmas tree.

See, here's what mystifies me about this... Jeffress likes the idea of forcing other people and businesses to utter "Merry Christmas" and post signs saying "Merry Christmas" who are uncomfortable doing it. Do the people at "Grinch Alert" really imagine that businesses and retailers intimidated into towing Grinch Alert's line are acting in the spirit of the season?

And here's one more video, especially for the Reverend Mr. Jeffress:

Thanx to Juliebogen

Crossposted at Thoughtcrimes

Comments

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

If by "these people" you mean paft and people like her, then yes.

[spaz-own-joo.livejournal.com]

This could backfire. I think it'd make more sense to exclusively patronize businesses on the Naughty List so that you can be assured of a Jingle-Bell-Rock-free retail experience.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

More power to you. It's useful information whichever way you swing.

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

"War on Christmas". I'm still trying to grasp the fact that this is considered a real issue at your side of the Big Water. But every time my head goes asplode. Its really, i dunno, how was the word... stupid?

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

"Never even hinted at a boycott?" Really? Here’s what Jeffress said on Fox:

Where's the hint at a boycott? You seem to imply that he hinted at one, but I'm not seeing it.

What's the problem with people recommending businesses based on their practices?

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

He should have just answered this question straight:
What if businesses who are on the naughty list lose customers?... Would it be a good idea to affect people’s business at this season, which can be make or break for some people, and in this economic climate?

Yes, it's a good idea. That's the point of a good list and a naughty list. Letting people know about the businesses they shop at so they can make a more informed decision.

See, here's what mystifies me about this... Jeffress likes the idea of forcing other people and businesses to utter "Merry Christmas" and post signs saying "Merry Christmas" who are uncomfortable doing it.

Here's why you're mystified. He's not forcing anyone to do anything. He's putting out information about businesses. You're free to use that information or not, along with everyone else. Your attempt to make him out to be evil based on your imaginings of his intentions is silly, although par for the course for you.

[qnetter]

So his encouraging people to shop at businesses that are assertively Christian... certainly legal, but pretty douchebaggy too, don't you think?

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

I love it how we celebrate Christmas as "traditional American values" when it's nothing of the sort.

[onefatmusicnerd.livejournal.com]

It is the one holiday that the Puritans were trying to get away from.

[silver-chipmunk.livejournal.com]

So suppose a business owner wishes to avoid being on the "naughty" list, and informs his employees that they MUST wish customers a "Merry Christmas" regardless of the religious beliefs of the employee, or else. How do we feel about that?

I'm not real happy with the thought of people being forced to violate their personal beliefs in order to hold a job, as long as the keeping of those beliefs doesn't violate anyone else's rights. (And it's hard to think how not being wished a Merry Christmas violates anyone's rights.)

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

So suppose a business owner wishes to avoid being on the "naughty" list, and informs his employees that they MUST wish customers a "Merry Christmas" regardless of the religious beliefs of the employee, or else. How do we feel about that?

Fine. It's his private business. I feel no worse about that then I feel about the people who have to list off ridiculous names of items at theme restaurants.

I'm not real happy with the thought of people being forced to violate their personal beliefs in order to hold a job, as long as the keeping of those beliefs doesn't violate anyone else's rights. (And it's hard to think how not being wished a Merry Christmas violates anyone's rights.)

I assume you hold the belief that not filling a prescription "violate[s]" someone's rights, right?

[rasilio.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, how can I put this.

Both sides of this issue are fucking morons who are going as far out of their way to be offended as possible.

If someone wishes you "Merry Christmas" and you ain't a Christian who cares, would you rather they were saying get the fuck out my my town you damn infidel?

On the flip side if you are a Christian and someone dares to include other perfectly legitimate end of the year holidays by saying "Happy Holidays" you got no business getting your panties in a wad just because they don't share your particular religious hallucinations.

Both sides need to grow up and accept the greetings in the way they are offered. When someone wishes you well accept the fact that they are being nice and don't be a dick because you don't like the particular way they did it.


Similarly, quit your friggin bitching and moaning because someone dares to show a religious symbol or a Christmas tree, or a Menorah, or any other symbol. The fact is this time of year is considered a time of celebration for pretty much every society on the face of the earth and has been fro thousands of years and people celebrating what is important to them doesn't impact you in any way shape or form. Grow up and recognize that as long as no one is shoving a gun in your face and telling you who to pray to you ain't being religiously oppressed so stop looking for reasons to feel that way.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

All wise and right. I just don't want to pay for any religious junk and I demand they stay the hell away from science classes.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

I see this as a "those darn Christophiles are at it again" type post and not really a serious political discussion.

But let me ask you a question, when organizations give out a list of minority friendly businesses, do you get angry? Or is Christianity the only group that annoys you when they do it?

[devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com]

This subject is good for LOLs, along with the "Halloween is Satanic" wargl bargl.

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

I don't care if anyone says "Happy Holidays" to me but if I say "Merry Christmas" to someone and they bark at me about it, I won't hesitate to tell them off. I'm a Christian. I don't celebrate Kwanza, Hannukah, Festivus, or any other fake or actual holiday you wanna celebrate EXCEPT for Christmas. Don't sit there and bemoan my choice of words just because YOU don't celebrate the same holiday.

[paft.livejournal.com]

I've never, in my life, had anyone bark at me for saying "Merry Christmas."

Nor have I heard of anyone making a list of businesses that say "Merry Christmas" and hinting that they should be boycotted.

Sorry, but this war is one that's been declared and waged by one side, and it's not those of us who say "Happy Holidays."

[prader.livejournal.com]

Dear Diary:

12-10-2010. Today I truly have seen it all. A liberal finally met a "boycott" she didn't like. Or something.

[paft.livejournal.com]

That's all you got?

Pathetic.

[new-wave-witch.livejournal.com]

I read this bit (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/science-small-talk/201011/war-christmas) the other day and it makes a few points that I share about the manufactured victimhood that makes up the War on Christmas.

[paft.livejournal.com]

Thanks! That's a really interesting piece.

[foxglovehp.livejournal.com]

Since there is almost nothing about Christmas that is actually Christian, I find the whole debate a little silly. If Christians want to include their mythology into the seasonal celebration, I don't have a problem with that. By the same token however, Christians need to lighten up a bit. If someone doesn't want to recognize the season as "Christmas" this does NOT constitute a "war on Christmas".

[prader.livejournal.com]

This.

Christmas is probably more your holiday (though I confess a large degree of ignorance when it comes to Wicca) than ours.

[jerseycajun.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be upset about. Free people organizing to distribute information that is publicly available for those who find that kind of information useful.

Freedom of speech and freedom of association working together to produce something you find uncomfortable.

What, oh what, shall we ever do?

[paft.livejournal.com]

jc: What, oh what, shall we ever do?

Criticize dishonesty and bullying when it occurs.

Next question?

[jerseycajun.livejournal.com]

Just had a thought:

Where were you when there was the boycott of Whole Foods in response to an op-ed the CEO wrote revealing he was free-market inclined?

[nikoel.livejournal.com]

Because being anti-union is anti-worker's rights where as being anti-"Merry Christmas" is only about being inclusive to everyone's religion and even lack thereof. The two things are hardly comparable.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Christmas is Christian only by name. What's the hubbub about?

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

Just something for us to talk about on a Friday night :D (those of us who are not out partying that is ;-))(and obviously I wasn't)

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Ah the oppressed Christian majority!

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

Hey, it can really be the pits....altho it's usually us oppressing ourselves due to all the sects, denominations, and stuff. At least at Christmas time we all get to be oppressed by non-Christians and we can rally together for a united front :D

[headhouse.livejournal.com]

First, it's a website. If you're being bullied by a website, you really need to get a nanny or something, because clearly you aren't able to take care of yourself anymore.

Second, even if it called for a boycott, so what? Boycotts are legal. It's a development of that whole freedom of speech idea, which I thought you'd be supportive of. Wait, it's being exercised by someone you disagree with. Nevermind.

If you (and everyone else whose panties were getting all twisted up over this) were smart, you'd turn this around on them. Go to the website, post the names of the businesses that didn't support christmas, and use their "naughty" list as your "nice" list. If the website mods delete your entries, they're just sabotaging their own effort. If not, you get some free PR for being clever.

But you'd rather sit at home and bitch about conservatives being mean to you. Well done. I honestly hope you haven't lived your entire life this way.

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

I'll admit it.

I'm astonished at the amount of energy some posters have expended trying to portray this as something less than a call to boycott.

Holy cow, who doesn't understand connotative meaning? Sheesh.

[paft.livejournal.com]

They understand connotative meaning perfectly. The same people going to such lengths to deny the obvious have enough grasp of language to write complex sentences. But admitting the intent of that website would force some of them to concede the nastiness at the bottom of this whole "War on Christmas" farce.

It's called arguing in bad faith.

A Couple of Observations After Looking Over the LONG Reaction to This Post

[paft.livejournal.com]

1. As [info]malasadas has already observed, it's striking to note the sheer energy and passion some here have poured into denying the obvious -- which is that "Grinch Alert" is intended as a vehicle for a boycott against businesses that dare to utter or write the words "Happy Holiday" rather than "Merry Christmas." Some of these "It's not a boycott" folks must get horribly confused when watching gangster films where a mob boss walks into a business, looks around, and purrs around his stogie to the owner, "Nice business you got here. Be a shame if something were to happen to it!"

"But he's not bad guy!" I imagine some of them insisting. "He said he didn't want to see anything happen to that nice man's business! That's why the owner of the speakeasy was willing to give Scarface O'Banion all that money!"

Yes, yes, I know, they don't react to a gangster movies that way. The people insisting here that Grinch Alert is not a vehicle for a boycott aren't that stupid. They're just pretending to be here in order to avoid conceding a point.

2. Exaggerating a poster's premise in order to bolster a claim that they are overreacting is dishonest. In the course of arguing about "Grinch Alert," I've used terms like "bullying," "intimidation," and "boycott." I have not used terms like "apocalypse," or "the end of the world." I don't believe I've even referred to it as "a big deal" (though I suspect losing customers during the Christmas season because of this website would be "a big deal" to a business already holding on by it's fingernails.)

The mere act of posting about something does not indicate that you consider it earthshaking. Nor does arguing a point -- even if you're interested enough to argue about it at length.

I'm impressed!

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

This looks like it will break the 500 mark sometime soon. Good job.

I'm reminded of how people say, "God bless you," as I walk by on the street. Sometimes I'll reply with something like, "And may the gods bless you as well."

I love talking with people about the origins of Christmas. It's such a thoroughly Pagan event, that I'm amazed Christians get their knickers in a twist over it. But then, they actually worship Caesar when they invoke the name of Jesus, so it's not all that surprising after all.