![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
paft.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
talkpoliticsRobert Jeffress:
Well, you know every year people bemoan the War on Christmas and I thought, “Let’s do something positive about it,” so we created this website, Grinchalert.com, it allows people to go on our website and, uh, if they’ve encountered a business that shuns Christmas they can talk about it and put that business on the naughty list but if they find a business that celebrates Christmas, they can put that business on the nice list. It’s just a fun way to say to businesses and organizations, “You don’t have to bow to political correctness. It’s okay to say, “Merry Christmas…”
John Roberts: What if businesses who are on the naughty list lose customers?... Would it be a good idea to affect people’s business at this season, which can be make or break for some people, and in this economic climate?
Jeffress: John, let me make it clear, we have never even hinted at a boycott…
"Never even hinted at a boycott?" Really? Here’s what Jeffress said on Fox:
Jeffress: One great example in the Dallas area, there was a bank that took down a Christmas tree because they said it would offend customers. Well, there was another bank that got put on our nice list, the Providence Bank, because they put up a nativity scene. The CEO told me yesterday that there were customers changing from the bank that removed the Christmas tree, and they’re flocking to his bank.
Gretchen Carlson: You are not calling for a boycott of any of these businesses….
Jeffress: Oh, not at all, not in any way! You know, there’s a Mexican restaurant you mentioned that was saying Happy Holidays, but our family still goes there every week…
Watch the latest video at video.foxnews.com
So it’s all about reassuring businesses. Honest! It’s all about making them feel nice and safe. He’s not advocating a boycott.
But he’s delighted to share as an example that little story of a bank losing customers because they took down a Christmas tree.
See, here's what mystifies me about this... Jeffress likes the idea of forcing other people and businesses to utter "Merry Christmas" and post signs saying "Merry Christmas" who are uncomfortable doing it. Do the people at "Grinch Alert" really imagine that businesses and retailers intimidated into towing Grinch Alert's line are acting in the spirit of the season?
And here's one more video, especially for the Reverend Mr. Jeffress:
Thanx to Juliebogen
Crossposted at Thoughtcrimes
you are trolling again I see....
Date: 11/12/10 02:52 (UTC)You are trying hard to move the goalposts. Sorry, I am not going to allow it.
You cannot force a boycott on anyone, everyone knows that.
Again: the OP is about them denying the list is being used to punish businesses during Christmas (a boycott). It clearly is doing just that per the comments on the site, "I'm not shopping there again".
Cause that's specifically not what they're doing, and you even admitted that.
They are listing businesses that they perceive to be naughty, without ANY verification, and letting the consumer decide if they want to boycott them.
you even admitted that
Pardon?
Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 11/12/10 02:59 (UTC)Yes, everyone knows that you can't force a boycott on someone. But again, NO ONE IS SPECIFICALLY CALLING FOR A BOYCOTT. If someone chooses not to take their money to one of the businesses mentioned, they're not required to. So why are you and
They are listing businesses that they perceive to be naughty, without ANY verification, and letting the consumer decide if they want to boycott them.
You just proved my point. THEY are letting the consumer decide. The OP was an attack on the website and the leader of the group who said it up. It's plain to see that.
Pardon?
Oh, you need to be reminded of your own words? Here ya go! (http://community.livejournal.com/talk_politics/815027.html?thread=61114291#t61114291)
Its not being explicitly stated, that's the issue.
Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 11/12/10 03:19 (UTC)I know, they are denying it, but then they make a tool that is designed to use for boycotting. Making a BOYCOTT (naughty) vs. PATRONIZE (nice) list and paying to host it on a public site is encouraging a boycott.
The issue we have is they wont own up to it.
If someone chooses not to take their money to one of the businesses mentioned, they're not required to. So why are you and paft treating this issue as if it's some horrible crime?
No one has suggested its a horrible crime, those are your words.
For the fourth time, the issue is that they deny its a boycott, but then are offering tools to boycott. Its a coy lie.
THEY are letting the consumer decide
This is true of every boycott in the history of the free market. No one has EVER been forced to boycott - by definition.
They are enabling and encouraging the consumer to boycott the naughty and patronizing the nice by creating such a list in the first place.
Its not being explicitly stated, that's the issue.
Right. They produced a tool used to boycott naughty biz, and then deny its a boycott cause that would make them look mean.
Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 11/12/10 03:21 (UTC)They have. They've specifically said they're not telling people to boycott the businesses mentioned.
Even if that were the case, why is that such a problem for you? Do you think that people don't have free will and wouldn't be able to listen to something a website tells them? Really?
You're being completely fanatical about the whole issue to the point of just being ridiculous.
Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 11/12/10 03:38 (UTC)Yeah, I know. Our point is that their statement is a coy lie to save face.
They made a tool for listing the "naughty" businesses. Users of the list are boycotting. They are paying money to host those complaints for all to see.
You're being completely fanatical about the whole issue to the point of just being ridiculous.
Well, I'm replying to your comments. But completely fanatical? I defy you to justify that one, else take it back.
Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 11/12/10 03:43 (UTC)Save face from what? You've said you don't disagree with people making personal choices about where they spend their money, so what is really the problem here? There must be a reason for your tedious bitching.
I defy you to justify that one, else take it back.
Or what?
Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 11/12/10 04:13 (UTC)As clearly stated in the OP, from being perceived as hurting struggling businesses during Christmas.
what is really the problem here?
For (at least) the ninth time, the problem is they wont admit to boycotting and yet they are offering the tools to boycott.
I defy you to justify that one, else take it back.
Or what
You lack integrity.
Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 11/12/10 04:21 (UTC)o_O
Seriously? That's a laughable reason for getting annoyed with the content of a website.
You lack integrity.
Are you joking? This is a LJ community, not Capitol Hill. If you come here for integrity, I pity you.
Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 11/12/10 19:19 (UTC)Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 11/12/10 20:30 (UTC)Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 11/12/10 20:42 (UTC)Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 11/12/10 20:48 (UTC)You can call it whatever you like, but you are being inconsistent. First you attack the website and the group who started it, then you attack the general idea that people are allowed to pick and choose where they spend their money. So who is your actual target in this whole issue?
Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 11/12/10 21:06 (UTC)I have no problem with boycotts as a tactic, but that does not mean I support every boycott. I disagree with this one. Strongly. And so I've said so. Quite consistently.
Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 11/12/10 21:30 (UTC)I have no problem with boycotts as a tactic, but that does not mean I support every boycott. I disagree with this one. Strongly. And there's your inconsistency.
Aside from the fact that this isn't a call for a mass boycott (or even a call for individual boycotts in general), you say you have NO PROBLEM with boycotts as a tactic. Yes, you have every right to NOT support this website, but NO ONE IS DEMANDING YOU DO. So why raise such a major stink about it?
By the way, you ARE aware that on the ENTIRE 'Naughty' list, only one person has said they quit buying from one store? Oh, and did I mention the full quote says they "quit buying from them years ago"? In other words, some people are posting entries for businesses they haven't gone through in years, yet they're still open. What a surprise!
Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 11/12/10 21:38 (UTC)I "raise a major stink about it" because I think what this Grinch Alert is doing stinks.
Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 11/12/10 21:44 (UTC)Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 11/12/10 21:47 (UTC)Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 11/12/10 21:53 (UTC)Do you or do you not agree that websites can be set up for whatever reason as long as they're within the legal parameters?
Is there anything illegal about what this website is doing?
If everything is kosher, then why not just ignore the website instead of trying to turn it into some national tragedy? JFC!
Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 11/12/10 21:58 (UTC)Yes, of course I agree that websites can be set up for whatever reason as long as they're within legal parameters. Does that mean I cannot criticize websites?
No, there is nothing illegal about what Grinch Alert is doing. Have I said there was?
"National tragedy?" Where have I said that?
You do realize that an act being legal doesn't make it above criticism, right?
Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 11/12/10 22:07 (UTC)I'm not saying they're not above criticism, but you're REASON for criticizing them is questionable.
Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 11/12/10 22:12 (UTC)But not specifically because they are a religious group. I have no problem with religious groups having websites.
Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 11/12/10 22:19 (UTC)Re: you are trolling again I see....
From:Re: you are trolling again I see....
From:Re: you are trolling again I see....
From:Re: you are trolling again I see....
From:Re: you are trolling again I see....
From:Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 12/12/10 20:10 (UTC)Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 12/12/10 20:08 (UTC)Re: you are trolling again I see....
Date: 12/12/10 20:56 (UTC)