talkpolitics | Entries tagged with socialism

In one of the more puzzling elements of a certain stripe of Western, almost entirely US and Canada-centric leftist the Venezuelan system created by Leftie Pinochet and the bus driver is held to be first, socialism, and second a socialist ideal. Leaving aside that Chavez and Maduro are only leftist if Bonapartists and nationalists retroactively become socialist because they tell the Colossus of the North to fuck off and leave it to go hang, and manage to make that stick, at least in part, the reality is that the Venezuelan system is entirely rooted in the oil industry.

This, moreso than active US involvement, which does exist but has failed, and failed spectacularly the last few times it's been tried, is the deeper root of Venezuela's misfortunes. Oil prices have been very low for years as a result of an Iranian-Saudi dogfight, and other oil states, like say, Russia, have suffered heavily for this, too.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-53767424

Venezuela's oil spill, since it did happen in a Chavismo sense, will no doubt be purely blamed on American involvement, because the magical powers of the Chavez legacy mean technological hitches never happen, or simply held to be propaganda by the opposition and then subject to a gag order and compulsory imprisonment.

I think my favorite irony of Bolivarian Venezuela is that it really is what Trump wants the USA to be, and yet Trump and the GOP call that socialism heedless of just how close it is to their own ideal vision.

tcpip

Writing about the politics of public health whilst we are the midst of a major global pandemic is a peculiar combination of churlishness and critical necessity. At the time of writing, there are 425,000 confirmed cases, and 19,000 deaths, and in a few days that number will double, and then double again, and then double again. It is worth remembering that the first 100,000 diagnoses took from December to March, the second from March 5 to 17, and the third from March 18 to 21, and the fourth from March 22 to 24. It is the single greatest health risk of this century, in part due to the relatively high rate of fatalities (approximately 4.1% of diagnosed cases), and significantly due to the relative ease of transmission. Most of all, however, the greatest risk is the effects of the ease of transmission and fatality rate combined, that is, how it overwhelms our health-care systems, which are woefully unprepared for an event such as this.

But it is not as if that the knowledge was not there. There have been plenty of warning signs, such the previous outbreaks of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) in late 2002 to mid-2003, which is related to COVID-19, to the extent that academics warned of SARS as "an agent of emerging and reemerging infection". SARS had a fatality rate of 9.6% across 17 countries, with approximately 8,000 people infected. SARS was also highly infectious (R0 value of 2-4), but was successfully contained. Then in 2009, there was the Pandemic H1N1/09 virus ("swine flu"), which had a higher infection rate than seasonal influenza, and a similar fatality rate. In comparison Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS), also a coronavirus, has a high fatality rate (36%) but a low transmission rate (R0 value of 0.3 to 0.8).

Recognising these rather impressive precursors, certain individuals also have tried to raise concerns. Michael Osterholm of the University of Minnesota, argued in 2005 that "Time is running out to prepare for the next pandemic. We must act now with decisiveness and purpose", and in 2017 had his book, "Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs" published. Virologist and flu expert Robert G. Webster warned of an upcoming 'flu pandemic, “Flu Hunter: Unlocking the secrets of a virus" late last year. The US Intelligence Team has warned about the possibility of a pandemic for years. Dr. Luciana Borio, once a member of the White House National Security Council (NSC) team responsible for pandemics, warned of pandemic threats; the team was disbanded under the Trump administration. Famously, Bill Gates argued in a TED talk in 2015, that we simply were not prepared.

( Read more... )

The System Kills

It is the system that is killing us. Yes, the direct cause is from a deadly infectious disease and part of that is, of course, the potential rate of transmission from a world that is a smaller place. But that could be managed with proper environmental considerations and animal welfare regulations in place. They are not in place because of the terrible levels of global inequality, the lack of social infrastructure in developing countries, and most of all because they would cost money. Our political economy is geared towards providing a race to the bottom in terms of value, and a race to the top for monopoly profits, which inevitably must be shared among fewer and fewer. Add to this either sensationalist private media which concerns itself more with shock value for sales rather than accuracy, and totalitarian media systems which have the facts at hand, but refuse to release them as to retain their social order, or engage in disruption through misinformation directed to more liberal societies. Managing the entire rotten edifice is the worst sort of political leaders whose concern for public welfare is demonstrably lacking in favour of their quest for perpetual power, manipulation of public opinion, and fulfilling their mission of their true masters. The irrational quest for the accumulation of power and wealth, at a cost of the lives of human and non-human animals, has reached the insanity that we witness today. The next pandemic, however, will be worse if these causes are not addressed; public health, media transparency, and the environment will not occur without smashing these accumulations in favour of more egalitarian power structures and a greater commonwealth. The warning has been given by this virus; and if the system does not show itself capable of reform, then revolution will be inevitable.

luzribeiro

Those failing Nordics and their failing socialism! Right? We've often heard the adage. Well, they haven't failed YET, but you just mark my words! They'll fail EVENTUALLY. Because... Socialism!

Well, first things first. The Nordic countries are capitalist, to begin with. They do have a generous welfare state that is paid by the wealth created by capitalism. The free market is alive and well in Scandinavia. Sweden at one point wanted to drift into socialism and they had to come back to the right to avoid ruin. They privatized social security and use charter schools. The public transportation is managed by the private sector as they are much more efficient than the state.

( Read more... )

mahnmut

( SEE MOAR! )

fridi

Yep. Faux "news" host Trish Regan has become a real celebrity in Denmark now. The reason: her bizarre claim that no one wants to work in Denmark. Oh, and that young Danes don't want to complete their education because the state pays them money to study. You know, socialism. Where people are deprived of their right of personal initiative.

Fox news host ridiculed for comparing Denmark to Venezuela
"Danish politicians respond to Trish Regan's strange claims about cupcake socialism"

( Read more... )

luzribeiro

We need to stop fighting about labels like Socialism and start focusing on issues like healthcare and income inequality. Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez are not Socialists. At least not in the Venezuelan implication of the word. Definitely not in the Chinese, or Leninist sense. In fact they are in favor of a capitalist society. Just one controlled so that the opportunities and resources of that great nation are available to all its citizens and so that all of the wealth and prosperity aren't solely going to those who are rich. It's an idea anyone can get behind. What a blasphemy, right?

Where we falter in communication is with the issues, which is why that's where the conversation needs to be focused on. Not on the label. So what are these issues? To name a few:

Medicare for All
Free tution
A higher LIVING minimum wage.
Fair taxation for corporations and the rich
A greener economic approach

If we stick to the issues and talk about what's important, then I know we would be able to reach and come to an agreement with the majority of people. It's just about sitting down and talking.

kiaa

Poll: More millennials would prefer to live under socialism than capitalism

One year into his presidency, #45 only has a 39% approval rating. For the last four decades no other POTUS has slumped so low. The Dems are not doing much better than him either, on the other hand. Just about 2/5 of Americans are positively predisposed to the donkey party.

If you want to find a political wing that hasn't suffered for the last year, you'd have to look more to the left. The socialist organizations, marginalized and persecuted for years because of not being mainstream enough, are now swelling. The DSA is doing particularly good. It used to have a relatively stable membership of about 6K ever since its inception in the early 80s, but after Trump got elected they welcomed 1K+ new members. Now a year later they claim at least 25K members, possibly making them the biggest socialist organization in the US since WW2. This is definitely a reaction to Trump, but also to the failure of the Dems to provide an inspiring alternative.

( Read more... )

marina-herriott.livejournal.com

Amazing American liberals-socialists are ready to follow their leader taking for granted all told by them. And it's dangerous if 47% are able most likely take for granted everything there leader saying beautifully even if it will ruin themselves. The significant example is the Obamacare. No one understands its gist, but all are it accepting.
The most dangerous from the Obamacare:

It cuts $716 billion from Medicare to pay for it
It has killed jobs because small businesses think it makes them less likely to hire people
The Congressional Budget Office has said Obamacare will cost $2,500 a year more than traditional insurance. Private sector typically is able to provide a better product at a lower cost. So it's expensive. Expensive things hurt families.
It puts in place an unelected board that's going to tell people, ultimately, what kind of treatments they can have

For those who are of the opinion that "Socialism has worked reasonably well for Scandinavia. I say we go for it. Besides, universal health care is bitchin '!", I suggest a closer look at if that is really the case.

marina-herriott.livejournal.com

I've looked into the List of Governors of Georgia and drew attention to the party affiliation of the governors: our state had been traditionally Democratic from 1872 till 2003. To me it is an indication America is slipping into socialism and losing its roots. I think who was a former Democrat is now considered a Republican, but Democrats are becoming socialists.

Personal circumstances influence on democratic or republican beliefs. The psychologist Jonathan Haidt explains it very clearly.

( Read more... )

allhatnocattle.livejournal.com

As the heavy-weight champion of the world from 1908-1915 "for more than thirteen years, Jack Johnson was the most famous and the most notorious African-American on Earth." He was not only famous, but extremely wealthy as well. He owned a large mansion, a night club (the COTTON CLUB), drove fast cars, and had numerous affairs with women of all ages and races (which would eventually land him in jail). What makes the story of Jack Johnson relevant to this discussion was his attitude. He wasn't a champion of equal rights, or "negro issues" or anything particularly liberal. His attitude was, "I got mine, so quit whining and go get yours".

I think of this often when American attitudes are on display, like during this election campaign. I really have never seen this attitude displayed anywhere outside the USA. Not anywhere. Certainly not in European politics. Not even in personal attitudes.

In America there are still people who feel that we're all in this together, and by supporting the least of us, by having everyone supported by a social safety net, we maintain a better society for all. These people are not liberal, they're just called that in the USA. These people just have a sense of morality that eludes people with so-called Christian values.

The attitude that there are economic opportunities and therefore there is economic class mobility. But anyone at the bottom knows that when you are living paycheque to paycheque, borrowing from Peter to pay Paul, there is nothing to put aside, nothing to invest. So the opportunity to make a better life is not so easily attainable. Working harder or longer isn't always an answer. Cutting down on expenses (why rent when I can just live in my car?) isn't always an option after you've cut every expense out of your life.

Money isn't created out of thin air. There's only about $10trillion USD of hard currency in circulation The Forbes 400 richest Americans have approximately a trillion dollars among them, just them.

I'm not going to say that it's unfair to have 10% of America's wealth distributed amongst 400 people in a country with 350,000,000 population. It's just a fact. What I will say is that their wealth is entirely dependant on other Americans being poor. That's just life.

In a fair and just society we protect people. We care for them. We have social safety nets so that very few of us suffer. We have this to maintain a society that allows economic and social class mobility.

Nuff said.

ddstory.livejournal.com

Hardheaded Socialism Makes Canada Richer Than U.S.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-15/hardheaded-socialism-makes-canada-richer-than-u-s-.html

"On July 1, Canada Day, Canadians awoke to a startling, if pleasant, piece of news: For the first time in recent history, the average Canadian is richer than the average American.
According to data from Environics Analytics WealthScapes published in the Globe and Mail, the net worth of the average Canadian household in 2011 was $363,202, while the average American household’s net worth was $319,970.
A few days later, Canada and the U.S. both released the latest job figures. Canada’s unemployment rate fell, again, to 7.2 percent, and America’s was a stagnant 8.2 percent. Canada continues to thrive while the U.S. struggles to find its way out of an intractable economic crisis and a political sine curve of hope and despair."
(courtesy

nairiporter)

I understand that in the minds of many of our friends on the right, the term "socialism" is a dirty word that calls associations to totalitarianism, Stalin, GULags, and greedy state bureaucracy stealing the hard-earned money of the good pious working people. The legacy of the Cold War brainwashing is pretty much alive and well, it would seem.

( My strawman aside, here's the funny thing )

prog-expat.livejournal.com

(Hah! You thought this was going to be an entry on Buddhism, dintcha.)

Something that observers of politics quickly realize is that the Left-Right model of politics is far too simplistic to be useful. (Well, except for those that take up a Cause and join the Crusade against the Other Side, as such a simplistic, bipolar view makes it easier to force-fit everything into terms of "Good vs. Evil" — typically with a redifinition of what constitutes Right and Left to more conveniently fit into that person's ideals of Good and Evil. "Nazis were Leftists" and "The Soviet Union was state capitalism" crowds, I'm glaring at you.) There have been many attempts to construct multi-axis methods of categorizing the political spectrum, most of them two-dimensional.

Since the dust-up over what defines socialism, I've been meditating off and on about the internal divisions within socialism. Recently, I came to the conclusion that there are three axes that define the different branches of socialism.

( Read more... )

A final thought: if socialism alone warrants three axes defining eight octants, what good is the broader Left-Right spectrum for anything other than wanking?

mintogrubb.livejournal.com

'A prices and incomes policy is doomed to fail' - or so we are told. they said the same ting about votes for women , about votes for men even .

So now, Islington has gone for a 10 to 1 ratio in earnings. No - Socialism does not have to mean taking it off the rich to give it to the poor. Any company can run on a 10 to 1 ratio - You want to make more money for yourself, Mr/Ms CEO? Well, just give more money to the people who put you up where you are. that way, everyon can get more wealth and the company will find that better housed, better fed and better educated workers are more productive than those who are not.

( Read more... )

So, okay , this is a Public Sector employer. But what would stop a private company from doing the same thing - apart from corporate greed, of course?

mintogrubb.livejournal.com

In a previous OP, I spoke of Religion as a subject, and it caused a bit of a storm. In this one I am going to focus on the political implications being a Christian, as I think it is still relevant to the subject of this forum.

If the Mods decide to delete on the grounds that it's too contentious, or flogging a dead horse, or simply O/T, I accept their decision. But what are the political implications for someone who claims to follow Christ?

For some, he is a historical person, a teacher of ethics, a philosopher, if you like - a Jewish version of Confucius, but nothing more. So, what did Jesus say? Well, the fact is that the crowd wanted to make Him king at one point and He just slipped away. He could easily have led a revolt to overthrow the Romans, and refused. Instead He said " My Kingdom is no part of this world". To his own followers, he gave a more detailed explanation of what this did and didn't mean.

When He gathered His disciples together for the last time before His execution, he told them plainly that while other kings and rulers lord it over their subjects, He considered Himself as a servant to His followers. "He who is your leader must be the servant to you all" He said, and to make the point, he took a bowl and towel and washed their feet.( Read more... )

mintogrubb.livejournal.com

In order to woo British voters, the BNP has dropped anti Semitism from its agenda
and now targets Muslims instead. Hitler gave anti Semitism a bad name, and when the presenter on BBC's programme 'Question Time' reminded the BNP spokesman Nick Griffin that Griffin himself had once said 'Hitler just went a bit too far' it proved to be disastrous for Griffin as he fumbled for an answer to distance himself from his earlier position. ( Read more... )

mintogrubb.livejournal.com

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sustainable-business/blog/flourishing-enterprises-wellbeing-profits

Ok, so the Guardian is a left wing UK newspaper, but the make the claim that sustainability, and not economic growth is what we need. In many ways, I would expect them to say this sort of thing - but can their claims be dismissed just be saying 'Oh, them? Don't listen.'?

Surely if their arguments are flawed, then their critics can maybe show us how, why and where they are flawed.( Read more... )

mintogrubb.livejournal.com

"I am a socialist, not a statist" says David Miliband.
Yoi may have to wade through the small print, but it is here in a left wing newspaper - not a source you can easily accuse of trying to smear him.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/david-miliband-i-have-changed-since-the-general-election-2071272.html

Ok, this is the statement of a Labour party Leader in Britain, discussing his political stance
in a world where Labour has famously dropped Clause Four.And if you don't know what clause four is, you really don't understand British Socialism. Clause 4 is the famous founding principle of the Labour Party "To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clause_IV

Now, before my critics come out to say that he and practically everyone else on the British left are really ' Social Democrats' , or 'Democratic Socialists " or some such, I want to point out that the term 'Social Democrat/ Democracy' does not have the currency in the UK that some Americans seem to think it does. In our land, it is more linked to continental Europe, both in common parlance and in people's minds.

"Socialism" is alive and well and living in Britain.
Caroline Lucas has declared "I ~am~ a Socialist", in response to a jibe by someone on a TV panel who accused her of being a Socialist and not really a Green.
In spite of what Mrs Thatcher declared -"We buried Socialism", and " There is no such thing as society", David cameron has back tracked " There is such a thing as Society" he recently declared, "It's just not the same thing as The State".

Well, Conservatives may have retreated from Thatcherism, but is Labour abandoning Clause 4 an abandonment of Socialism itself, or just the Marxist version of the creed?
How do British Socialists and Marxists view the link between Marxism and Socialism? Are they viewed as separate entities, or does Marxism stack up inside the Socialist world view like a Russian doll? Well, lets have a look at a few sites, shall we? ( Read more... )

mintogrubb.livejournal.com

Ok , lets have a look at the dictionary definition of Socialism.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Socialism

Go to the first entry and read. You will notice that it isn't just about the public ownership of the means of production, but distribution also. Now how did this change from the one widely quoted on this forum come about? Notice that it says 'etc', but does not define it, explain it or elaborate upon it. How about publicly owned Schools and Hospitals? Is that Socialism or not?

Now look at the other 3 entries, note how they differ from the first. So, what is Ssocialism ?Lets look here at what one American blogger thinks that Socialism is

Of course- I completely agree with this woman, but then, I am a Socialist myself.
No, she is not my sock puppet, but let me quote her in case the link goes down . Such wisdom as this deserves to be widely distributed and recorded for posterity. here is what she says:- ( Read more... )

mintogrubb.livejournal.com

In our last discussion, it soon became clear that some people have a habit of framing the debate on terms that are somewhat biased to say the least.

Take this business about " tax is theft" - ok, sometimes a level of taxation may be exorbitant or unfair - but what is the alternative?

See, I am not saying that the Government should own and run everything.
That is Communism, and Communists are a subset of Socialists in the same way that Episcopalians are a subset of Christians.
Just because someone goes to church, this does not mean that they use the Book of Common Prayer, or think that Quakers are odd - they may well be Quakers themselves.

In like manner, Socialists believe in some form of State ordered society and some form of State control, rather than a laissez faire approach favoured by Conservatives. You may say that "That isn't Socialism, it is simply capitalism with a human face".

Ok, I grant you that on many issues, people on the Left wing of the British Tory Party are practically indistinguishable from a right wing, well heeled Labour supporter. but politics is a spectrum of belief , not a clearly set and unbridgeable gulf, such as the Mises Institute would suggest. ( Read more... )

Credits & Style Info

Talk Politics.

A place to discuss politics without egomaniacal mods

MONTHLY TOPIC:
The Scramble for Resources

DAILY QUOTE:

"Someone's selling Greenland now?" (asthfghl)

"Yes get your bids in quick!" (oportet)

"Let me get my Bid Coins and I'll be there in a minute." (asthfghl)

May 2025

M	T	W	T	F	S	S
			1	2	3	4
5	6	7	8	9	10	11
12	13	14	15	16	17	18
19	20	21	22	23	24	25
26	27	28	29	30	31

Talk politics.

A place to discuss politics without egomaniacal mods.

Entries tagged with socialism

'Socialism' ala Big Oil is as ecologically catastrophic as right wing petrostates, news at 11:

Coronavirus disease 2019 and a Case for Environmental Socialism

What is Socialism, and is it desirable?

Friday nonsense. Socialist memes!

What happened last night in Sweden

Utopia? Not so fast.

Commie flavor

Obama Wants to Make America More Like Sweden When Swedes Trying to Move in the Opposite Direction

America is leaning dangerously to the left

(no subject)

Quiet success

On Three-Way Divisions and Eightfold Paths

(no subject)

Jesus as a political figure

The changing face of Fascism in Britain

Sustainability - is it practical and possible?

Socialism and 'Social Democracy ' in modern Britain

Socialism 101 - what is( and isn't) "real Socialism"

Socialism - what are the alternatives?

Credits & Style Info

Links

May 2025

Summary