talkpolitics | Entries tagged with death penalty

paft.livejournal.com

Texas Primary Voter on Governor Rick Perry allowing the execution of Cameron Todd Willingham, a man who was probably innocent: It takes balls to execute an innocent man.

Brian Williams to Governor Rick Perry: Your state has executed 234 death row inmates, more than any other governor in modern times…

(Audience bursts into applause and whistles)

( Read more )

mintogrubb.livejournal.com

So, rampaging mobs in London have been forced to turn and run when confronted by chaps waving hockey sticks and cricket stumps. Even Millwall residents who were completely unarmed were sufficient to deter some looters who turned up on their patch - one wonders how well the citizens of London would be able to keep law and order given the proper training and some decent kit.

But, the Brits have also got a petition in the air about repealing the ban on capital punishment. So, should we judicially execute people? A writer on the Times letter page, claiming to work for an organisation called Amicus, says that in the USA, the States that have the death penalty have a higher murder rate per capita than the states that have banned executions. True or false, guys? Tell us if you know.( Read more... )

johnny9fingers.livejournal.com

This article caught my eye this merry morning.

The thing that made me take notice was these paragraphs, which I quote for the tl;dr brigade:

Correia brings up a significant but little-known fact about death-penalty law in the US – namely, that current court precedent allows the execution of innocent people. Remarkably, the supreme court, in a 1993 opinion, suggested that "actual innocence" is not a sufficient cause to be let free. The court only cares if the legal rules are followed, while acknowledging that innocent people could still be convicted and put to death.

In such cases, a prisoner could appeal for executive clemency. It seems the court has not yet learned what many states have: that the death penalty system is broken beyond repair.

Whether the final declarative sentence of the second paragraph is true or not is probably a matter for debate. However....

I'd like to ask the folk in favour of the death penalty a question: if the first paragraph is true should the death penalty laws be amended so that 'actual innocence' is reason enough for it not to be executed?

I know some folk will think this all very silly: if the courts convict, of course you're guilty. It's just in the UK we've seen a good few miscarriages of justice, and we happen to think we have the best justice system in the world. No doubt America views its justice system similarly.

princesssisi87.livejournal.com

As I was comfortably eating my lunch and hardly looking at the TV screen in front of me, I suddenly stopped chewing and actually paid attention to what was being shown and said. Parents fussing around prevented me from hearing properly, but after some volume adjustments my fears had been confirmed. I had, indeed, heard correctly. A soldier is charged with having aided the enemy and having illegally obtained thousands of records from various databases. Private First Class Manning is now facing 22 extra charges. This is an article from the BBC, expanding on the news:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12628983

There have been vast debates on the topic of Wikileaks in the past few months. In all honesty, I have been, more or less, content that Wikileaks is not eating so much air time. Whether or not I believe such websites should be taken down or not is perhaps irrelevant. I am saying "perhaps", for it might as well become relevant in further discussions given the nature of the issue.

What I was surprised to read, though, was the following:

"The new charges accuse the soldier of using unauthorised software on government computers to download classified information and to make intelligence available to "the enemy".

Under the US Uniform Code of Military Justice, the offence is punishable by death."

Never would I claim to be an expert in Law, let alone something as specific as the US Uniform Code of Military Justice, but for some reason I find the death penalty to be a slightly exaggerated means of dealing with such type of crime. I am aware that in a number of Ameican states certain crimes are punished by the death penalty. From what I have read and heard, most of these crimes are intentional murder, first - degree murder under particular circumstances, murder with aggravating factors, capital murder among others. Needless to say, the prevalent word here is "murder". I myself, despite being a citizen of the EU, agree that when and where certain crimes are concerned, the death penalty should, undoubtedly, be considered. However, I do not view illegally gathering and publishing data as horrendous a crime as to be punished by death.

Additionally,

"But in a news release, the US Army said prosecutors would not be recommending the death penalty.

"If convicted of all charges, Manning would face a maximum punishment of... confinement for life," said the statement."

Of course, "confinement for life" is a more suitable punishment from my perspective, but the "confinement" element still disturbs me. Is that a sarcastic way of letting everyone know leaking information is wrong and eternal silence shall ensue? Then again, it might be me automatically adding the word "solitary" to the equation, when in fact, it does not appear in the quoted statement.

Anyway, I have rambled far too much. Your thoughts on, whether or not the death penalty should be considered for similar crimes as well as "confinement for life", are more than welcome. If you would like to correct me or there is anything else that you would like to share, feel free.

Location: Take a wild guess..
Music: Rage Against the Machine - Killing in the name of

kinvore.livejournal.com

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/02/22/arizona.double.killing/?hpt=T2

I don't advocate the death penalty but I shed no tears for this woman. Here's the crux of the story: an anti-immigrant militant attacked a Latino family, killing the father and 9-year-old daughter (as she begged for her life), and shooting the mother who only survived because she pretended to die from the gunshot.

The murderers thought the father was a drug dealer and they wanted his money to finance their budding hate group. I guess that would have been a nifty recruiting tool for extremists, their willingness to kill Mexicans to get things done. Nevermind the fact that the victims were American-born citizens, such details are irrelevant when racial bigotry is concerned.

This is the sort of thing that happens when you fan the flames of hatred, dehumanization is the predecessor to atrocity. I'm surprised this didn't get more attention from the mainstream media, I guess they aren't as liberal as so many seem to think.

paft.livejournal.com

From Greg Gutfeld's Red Eye:

So I’m going to begin this Greg-a-logue by stating plainly that I’m probably a jerk. I say that because when I examine the opinion I’m about to give, the reason for that opinion could be that I’m a jerk.

Hold on to your seats folks. This indicates he’s about to say something utterly indefensible and repulsive and try to pass it off as I-gotta-be-me, boys-will-be-boys sincerity. He’s offering the relatively mild term “jerk” to forestall being called something worse.

( Read more )

sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com

So as a break from the oil spill and because it's been a while since someone's posted about captial punishment...

Death by firing squad for Utah killer

Now this hasn't been getting much press due to BP's mess in the gulf but a few local pundits have taken upon themselves to decry the inhumanity of the death penalty in general and more specifically "simply shooting someone".

I am of two minds on the subject.

As a combat veteran and supporter of the right to self defense, the concept of taking a human life is something that I have long since come to terms with. The death of a covicted murderer does not inspire much consternation on my part.

And after reading some of the horror stories about botched lethal injections niether does the use of a firing squad. Frankly, a well-placed gunshot is about as "quick and clean" a death as you could ever ask for.

That said I am uncomfortable with supporting the death penalty. Not so much out of any moral objection so much as the proven fallabilty of the legal process. How many times a year is a conviction overturned? Killing is not something you get to "take-back" if you make a mistake, or discover new evidence.

http://users.livejournal.com/aviation_/

Sometimes it really gets me down to see that people will talk certain issues to death (South Park?) but others seem to go relatively unmentioned in the great big scheme of things.

One of the issues that is most important to me is abolishment of the death penalty, prison reform, and the corruption within the US (specifically because it the only one I have a say it, but also worldwide) justice system. A lot of people say, "Yeah, I agree, but it's not at the top of my list." Why not? Do you feel so far removed from it? Is it because so relatively few executions take place in the US every year? Do believe the people in prison/death row "deserve it?" Do you believe that the innocent are so rarely wrongly convicted that focusing on it is like trying to find the cure for a disease only 100 people have when we still have cancer and AIDS? Do you think it is fair that those who get the death penalty and longer sentences are often those who maintain their innocent and refuse a plea bargain? They are often those with poor representation, like Jerry Guerinot. Do other issues just speak to your more? Obviously, we all have to pick and choose where we can devote our time.

It just seems to me our justice system's corruption and sporadic execution of our own citizens is a really big deal.

What do you consider to be issues that are often forgotten or "glossed over?" Especially if they are particularly important to you. Why do you think people ignore these issues? Do they go in and out of "fashion?"

http://users.livejournal.com/aviation_/

As you may or may not know, Damien Echols has had a date set for the arguments for him appeal set for Sep 30th. Echols is a member of the West Memphis 3 and is on death row.

I am very interesting in the role of the media in condemning suspects and also in potentially bringing injustice to light. Over the years, many celebrities and musicians have come out in support of the West Memphis 3, books and documentaries have been made, but there hasn't been any rush to actually do anything in the courts. There are other well-known cases like Mumia Abu-Jamal and less well-known cases like Charles Dean Hood. A lot of people seem to believe that if there is true injustice, the news will pick it up and people will be outraged. Is this really true? Does it matter if the media reports on these sorts of things or not? It hasn't happened for the West Memphis 3 as much as one might expect, given that almost no one who has looked over the evidence could conclude that they are guilty.

There are also cases like those of Lindy Chamberlain and Amanda Knox , where the media has caused so much bias in the public that a fair trail was pretty much impossible from the start.

How do you feel about this? Do you think you'd be able to be an impartial juror if you'd been exposed to one-sided information beforehand? What can justice systems so to prevent this from taking away a person's right to a fair trial while also not censoring the media? Do you trust the media to report on it when injustice is occuring, especially when it is as serious as putting someone on death row?

futurebird.livejournal.com

I'm pretty religious and also pretty liberal (in the American sense of the word) I became liberal (I used to be a Libertarian when I was younger) gradually as I've gotten older and generally been impressed with how well liberal institutions work. I regard politics as more practical than moral and don't think I have any right to have my own religious notions of morality enforced on others. Like many liberals, I object to the death penalty because if its long history of racist, classist and anti-male** application and its inherent imperfections (a single innocent being executed invalidates the whole institution.)

But, unlike other political positions I have, my disdain for the death penalty coincides with my religious beliefs on the matter. Mainly, that God's justice is perfect, God will send the sinners to hell and the righteous to heaven and it's not really possible for us, as mere mortals, to tell which is which. As such, justice as in retribution is a matter for God. We would do best to respect life and ensure our safety by locking up people who hurt others.

Yet I find that many people who are religious have no problem with the death penalty-- since religion tends to intersect of conservative politics more often. Or is there a religious connection there as well?

Roman Catholic Church says that the death penalty is "lawful slaying" and basis this on it being a necessary deterrent and prevention method, but not as a means of vengeance. So, if it is ineffective as a deterrent (there is some evidence that this is true) --would they reject it? Recently they have though not very vocally.
Anglican and Episcopalian bishops condemned the death penalty.
Southern Baptist Convention updated Baptist Faith and Message. In it the convention officially sanctioned the use of capital punishment by the State. It said that it is the duty of the state to execute those guilty of murder and that God established capital punishment in the Noahic Covenant. This is different from the Roman Catholic take on it-- no mention of it excluding vengeance.
Other Baptists reject the death penalty, my church does!
Like Christians, Islam and Buddhists and Jews do not have a united stance on the matter.
Atheists also have many views on the matter.

So, based on all of that, do we find no guidance in religion? I wonder how I would feel about the matter if the religious teachings I have encountered didn't match with my philosophical notions-- Is it always the case that one must shape the other? Is there anyone who thinks the death penalty should be allowed, though they suppose it is sinful or against their religion? Is there anyone who wants to stop the death penalty though they think it might not be a sin?

**We could talk about how believing it is wrong to kill a woman still further dehumanizes her-- the global effect of this furthesr sexism against women, the local effect is unfair to poor, mostly minority, men.

dv8nation.livejournal.com

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6899748.html

Of course, this was quickly followed by some backpeddling. “He did not rule that the death penalty is unconstitutional,” said Mark Bennett, a criminal defense lawyer. “He ruled that a procedure that allows the execution of innocent people is unconstitutional.”

Now odds are this ruling will get tossed out by an appellate court. But that it actually happened is fairly remarkable in and of itself. For those not from the US Texas is regarded, with good reason, as the most death penalty happy state in the union. I'm not so optimistic as to think this is the start of a trend. But I do think it's one more sign that the old order in Texas is fading.

Mood: dirty
Location: United States, Texas, San Antonio
Music: "Let's Get Away From It All" by Frank Sinatra

enders-shadow.livejournal.com

I'm going to attempt to argue a theory here; many may jump on me for the real-world practice that goes on, but this is not about that.

In theory, I support the death penalty. This is an eye-for-an-eye sort of justice.
If you take anothers life, delibrately, in cold blood, in a pre-meditated fashion, you have lost your right to live, IMO.

Now, since this penalty is to be administered by the govt, there ought be some strict guidelines. Here is what I propose:

Either:
A) You are caught in the act by the authorities (but the person dies before he/she can be rushed to the hospital)
B) There is overwhelming evidence against you--personally I feel that four criteria would be met for this:

fingerprint
DNA
eye-witness
video of event (audio is a plus, but I feel these four are sufficient to ensure that the guilty party is the one being punished)

These strict requirements, are, to my knowledge, not required anyplace where the death penalty is enacted. Thus my theoretical support of the death penalty does not support the real-world way in which the death penalty is applied in the US (or elsewhere)

I recognize that in the US (and prolly elsewhere too) the death penalty is applied in a biased manner and that in too many cases the wrong person is executed. I feel that the criteria I laid out are sufficient to ensure no wrongful executions -- though, of course, I am open to hear contrary views on that.

Let us put aside issues of economic cost (which vary) and issues of how to execute (which vary) and focus on the question of: "Is execution for murder an acceptable punishment?"

I feel that it is; I feel that one forfits their right to live when they steal that right from another. I believe in human rights that are inherent but not absolute--the human rights that we all have are what we start with, but we do not necessarily retain them forever. We can lose them.

Thoughts?

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Talk politics.

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Entries tagged with death penalty

...And the Crowd Goes Wild

Should Britain have a voluntary Civil Guard ?

An old debate, but one that just keeps rearing its head.

"Wikileaks: Suspect Bradley Manning faces 22 new charges"

Shawna Forde gets death penalty

Why Yes, Mr. Gutfeld, I AM a Jerkophobe

Walking down Rodeo with a shotgun?

Ignored Issues

Media's role in the justice system

Religion and the death penalty.

Texas Judge Rules Death Penalty Unconstitutional

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May 2025

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