"Wikileaks: Suspect Bradley Manning faces 22 new charges"

[princesssisi87.livejournal.com]

As I was comfortably eating my lunch and hardly looking at the TV screen in front of me, I suddenly stopped chewing and actually paid attention to what was being shown and said. Parents fussing around prevented me from hearing properly, but after some volume adjustments my fears had been confirmed. I had, indeed, heard correctly. A soldier is charged with having aided the enemy and having illegally obtained thousands of records from various databases. Private First Class Manning is now facing 22 extra charges. This is an article from the BBC, expanding on the news:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12628983

There have been vast debates on the topic of Wikileaks in the past few months. In all honesty, I have been, more or less, content that Wikileaks is not eating so much air time. Whether or not I believe such websites should be taken down or not is perhaps irrelevant. I am saying "perhaps", for it might as well become relevant in further discussions given the nature of the issue.

What I was surprised to read, though, was the following:

"The new charges accuse the soldier of using unauthorised software on government computers to download classified information and to make intelligence available to "the enemy".

Under the US Uniform Code of Military Justice, the offence is punishable by death."

Never would I claim to be an expert in Law, let alone something as specific as the US Uniform Code of Military Justice, but for some reason I find the death penalty to be a slightly exaggerated means of dealing with such type of crime. I am aware that in a number of Ameican states certain crimes are punished by the death penalty. From what I have read and heard, most of these crimes are intentional murder, first - degree murder under particular circumstances, murder with aggravating factors, capital murder among others. Needless to say, the prevalent word here is "murder". I myself, despite being a citizen of the EU, agree that when and where certain crimes are concerned, the death penalty should, undoubtedly, be considered. However, I do not view illegally gathering and publishing data as horrendous a crime as to be punished by death.

Additionally,

"But in a news release, the US Army said prosecutors would not be recommending the death penalty.

"If convicted of all charges, Manning would face a maximum punishment of... confinement for life," said the statement."

Of course, "confinement for life" is a more suitable punishment from my perspective, but the "confinement" element still disturbs me. Is that a sarcastic way of letting everyone know leaking information is wrong and eternal silence shall ensue? Then again, it might be me automatically adding the word "solitary" to the equation, when in fact, it does not appear in the quoted statement.

Anyway, I have rambled far too much. Your thoughts on, whether or not the death penalty should be considered for similar crimes as well as "confinement for life", are more than welcome. If you would like to correct me or there is anything else that you would like to share, feel free.

Comments

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Could you unlock the post please? It must have been set as your default option or I dunno. We prefer to keep posts unlocked here.

Also, what happened with those fonts? They're killing my eyes ;-(

[princesssisi87.livejournal.com]

I'm new to JL, so not sure how to unlock it..And sorry for having killed your eyes ;)

[torpidai.livejournal.com]

Well, the death penalty would be one sure way of preventing re-offending!!!

Am I to assume, your "life" means life? no chance of parole or early release?

If you don't believe prison works, just look at Nelson Mandela, he hasn't re-offended has he? (/TIC)

[princesssisi87.livejournal.com]

Of course, the death penalty ensures one will never re-offend. The point is whether he has committed such a serious crime for this method to be implemeted.

I do believe in the prison system. If anything, I do not see the *judicial* system as very fair. I think the notion of "punishment" should become more severe to reflect the seriousness of the crimes and provide for stability and the feeling of "Justice has been served" within the society. However, I still do not see it as necessary to *kill* anyone who has not offended in such a horrid manner.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

There was no more an apartheid regime for him to re-offend against.

[anadinboy.livejournal.com]

mandela supports the PLO, he told the ira "we didnt stop till we won" hes a right evil pig. "one can smile and smile and be a villin"

[devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com]

Upon joining the U.S. Army, it is made abundantly clear that releasing classified documents is frowned on. Understanding why does not require one to be a rocket scientist. Although the UCMJ retains the death penalty as an option, it has been rarely used. I doubt he will even get a life sentence - probably more like 20 years.

[princesssisi87.livejournal.com]

I am quite certain he has understood that releasing classified documents is "frowned on" rather well. In most cases, people grasp the concept of what is lawful and what is not; what is right or wrong, unless they are classified as Psychotic serial killers, for instance. Knowing something is out of order does not stop one from offending anyway. Nowhere have I claimed that he has not disregarded the law system. I am merely suggesting that the death penalty is uncalled for. In my *humble* opinion, that is.

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

Regardless of one's opinion on Wikileaks and how they operate, Private Manning quite literally stole a quarter million classified documents from the United States government. He knew this was illegal. He knew this would be interpreted as espionage. He did it anyway. Since he is not a foreign national in the employ of an intelligence service, there is nobody to bargain on his behalf in the form of a spy exchange.

Prosecutors, both in the military and the state and federal levels, have a habit of tossing a lot at a suspect to see what will stick and to gain leverage to force a plea bargain.

Private Manning is likely going to spend a long time in prison. That's the definition of "confinement". If one is sympathetic to Julian Assange's views that information is never secret, one can feel sympathy for Private Manning, but if your ideology is radically out of synch with the law, you're gonna have to take your lumps.

[princesssisi87.livejournal.com]

"He knew this was illegal. He knew this would be interpreted as espionage. He did it anyway."

Running the risk of repeating myself, no one has suggested he is right. I am not arguing he should not be prosecuted. I am arguing the death penalty should NOT be taken lightly and applied to all sorts of crimes. I support the death penalty when it boils down to the most serious of crimes. Stealing classified documents, however unlawful, does not amount to the serioussnes of murder. All I am saying.

[princesssisi87.livejournal.com]

"Should the death penalty be considered for crimes like this? Yes. But as I said, they should be decided on a case by case basis."

I completely agree. Considered does not equal applied, athough I seem to be insinuating that in that last paragraph. Wrong use of wrods on my side :)

[korean-guy-01.livejournal.com]

This is more than "illegally gathering data & publishing it." It's not that black & white. Lives could have been lost from divulging this info. This isnt stealing Apple's trade secrets and letting its competitors know about it.

Perhaps he isn't getting the death penalty because that wasn't the case here. It easily could have been, though, and the death penalty should absolutely be considered in such possibilities.

[princesssisi87.livejournal.com]

Considered, yes, I second that. Should it be applied, though, more severe offences should have occurred.

[torpidai.livejournal.com]

Lives could have been lost from divulging this info.

Surely with an ever expanding human population, this isn't such a bad thing? (Well except for the top rung capitalists losing out on customers?)

[farchivist.livejournal.com]

Never would I claim to be an expert in Law, let alone something as specific as the US Uniform Code of Military Justice, but for some reason I find the death penalty to be a slightly exaggerated means of dealing with such type of crime.

Outside of war, there are 14 instances in which the death penalty may be applied at any time according to the UCMJ. One of those is espionage. Due to his role as an intelligence officer and for passing on classified information to unauthorized sources, Bradley has committed espionage, willing or no. He didn't seek protection as a whistleblower, so there's no out for him.

Why he didn't think of this when he committed the acts of espionage, I have no idea.

Of course, "confinement for life" is a more suitable punishment from my perspective, but the "confinement" element still disturbs me. Is that a sarcastic way of letting everyone know leaking information is wrong and eternal silence shall ensue? Then again, it might be me automatically adding the word "solitary" to the equation, when in fact, it does not appear in the quoted statement.

He's been kept in solitary confinement so far, ever since his transfer to the USA. That would be since July 2010. He'll probably be sent to general prison at Leavenworth, but if the military feels they need to make an example, there is ample precedent to instead have him incarcerated at ADX Florence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX_Florence), which would make Leavenworth seem like a resort camp.

[princesssisi87.livejournal.com]

Thanks for your input.

Are the remaining instances all linked to murder in one way or another?

I personally support the idea of solitary confinement being a form of torture and / or cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment, as stipulated in a few internationally - recognised legal documents.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

Espionage gets people killed and can cause wars to be lost.

[princesssisi87.livejournal.com]

How is losing wars relevant? People being killed, yes, I can see where you're coming from. But in the light of someone (not Private Manning in particular) possibly facing the death penalty, I reckon it's of lesser importance who actually wins and who loses :)

[anadinboy.livejournal.com]

i love bradley and i think hes partly responsible for whats going on now in north africa. Im kind of trying to ignore the uniform and put him in the catagory of a whitehouse whistleblower. Though if he had given or sold the details of some new super missle to china then id say kill him.

[princesssisi87.livejournal.com]

"Though if he had given or sold the details of some new super missle to china then id say kill him."

I don't see myself coming up with a proper response to this statement, so I'll let it be.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

If anyone can show me a link to the info that Wikileaks has released and someone winding up dead then I'd consider the death penalty. But nobody has showed me any such evidence or linkage.

[princesssisi87.livejournal.com]

Thanks for your comment. I can't add anything really, well said :)

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

However, I do not view illegally gathering and publishing data as horrendous a crime as to be punished by death.

That should really depend on the information that is published and what use it is put to, shouldn't it?

[princesssisi87.livejournal.com]

Indeed, it should, although releasing *any type* of information in itself doesn't exactly amount to torturing and murdering people, war crimes or crimes against humanity, does it?

Plus, can we hold him *solely* responsible for what *other* parties do with the information in question? Yes, it's a prerequisite for possible exploitation and crimes, but can he be held accountable for what *others* do with it (where "others" doesn't refer to people under his direct command)?

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

I don't think this warrants the death penalty, cuz Manning wasn't really working "with an enemy" as generally understood. If he was in the actual employ of an enemy, hang 'em high. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. I think the death penalty is absolutely appropriate in military institutions.

Then again, I think any fuck who kills or rapes civilians should be given a summary trial and shot by firing squad on the spot. So you know, I'm a little out there.

[princesssisi87.livejournal.com]

I'm out there as well, even though I regard Human Rights highly and would like to work in that field one day. I'm not very well-acquainted with the Laws within Military Institutions, so some of the input on here is helping me understand better.

And I..agree! Again, taking into consideration the merits of the case.

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

by the time he gets out of solitary, he's going to be dead anyways. one bad decision. one wasted life.

Whistleblower law doesn't count?

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Most modern countries do not have death penalty. The EU forbids it. Even Russia doesn't use it. USA is in bad company by having the death penalty. China, North Korea, Iran.

Treason is an extremely poor reason to kill a guy. Not sure if the state will save any more lives by hanging him. I doubt it.

USA is supposed to have Whistleblower laws. Guess they don't count when he mixed in whistle blowing with lots and lots of other leaked documents. But I'm sure glad he got the ball rolling by ratting out those murdererous US marines in Iraq (http://vodpod.com/watch/3374477-msnbc-com-video-u-s-troops-shoot-innocent-civilians)

Re: Whistleblower law doesn't count?

[princesssisi87.livejournal.com]

"I've said this before and I'll say it again. Most modern countries do not have death penalty. The EU forbids it. Even Russia doesn't use it. USA is in bad company by having the death penalty. China, North Korea, Iran."

That is, indeed, the case..

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

Your refusal to use the standard font made me so angry I didn't read your post.

[princesssisi87.livejournal.com]

That's your prerogative, but I still won't repeat myself :)

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

The Uniform Code of Military Justice does not operate in the same fashion that civilian law does. And in this particular case he has realized some documents that were classified, so the military is fully within its rights and those of the UCMJ to punish him. I might ask as a question with Manning that if he'd leaked all this to say, North Korea or to Iran would people be so quick to defend him?

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

Your "if" is full of whimsy. Stick to the facts, not some wet dream of yours to satisfy your sadism. Seriously.

A case like this seems sorely needed to be reviewed. If government employees (diplomats, low level pencil pushers and congressmen) can cloud all communication with "classified" or "top secret" label, then the question one should ask is... where does it begin? Where does it end? This needs to be clarified and given guidelines. It's bullshit that a free society could possibly convict anyone for publishing a classified top secret grocery list. That's not whimsy, that's fact.