[identity profile] ddstory.livejournal.com
I mean, the only one who could benefit from the attention is Ken Ham and nobody else. And his horde of Creationist drones. Why provide him with the validation that he so much desires? The Nye/Ham debate wasn't supposed to be "won" by anyone - Ham lured Nye into it, in order to bring himself into the spotlight. And Nye obliged. Why?

Case in point:

Bill Nye visited a Noah’s Ark he doesn’t believe should exist

If these guys so much insist to splash enormous amounts of money into stupid projects like building a stupid ship in the middle of nowhere to make a point - be my guests. But trying to reason with them and argue with them on their turf, on their own terms? Why is he doing that? To look nice and open-minded? To accommodate somebody's sensitivities? To appease somebody? Or to recruit people from the "other side" to your cause? News flash: IT WON'T WORK. It has never worked that way. Those people have already been brainwashed to a point where no new information can enter their heads no matter what. They're a lost cause.

You just can't use reason to argue with un-reason. The other side just lacks the instrumentarium for processing what you're presenting to them.
[identity profile] ddstory.livejournal.com

The US viewers became witness of a presumably "epic" debate between famous science poularizer Bill Nye (the Science Guy) and the president of the Creation Museum in Kentucky, Ken Ham. Now, some of us may know that Ham is a Young-Earth Ceationist who believes our planet was literally created about 6000 years ago (based on a literal read of Genesis). Against him stood Bill Nye, a scientist and agnostic, who cited a large amount of sources testifying that the Earth was actually formed about 4.5 billion years ago, and life developed from a common ancestor about 3.5 billion years ago. Here's the whole debate, for those of ya who can stomach 2.5+ hours of it without earwax starting to ooze from all your orifices:

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First things first )
[identity profile] ddstory.livejournal.com

Texas Public Schools: Still Teaching Creationism
"In Texas public schools, children learn that the Bible provides scientific proof that Earth is 6,000 years old, that the origins of racial diversity trace back to a curse placed on Noah's son, and that astronauts have discovered "a day missing in space" that corroborates biblical stories of the sun standing still."

Thus foundeth Reading, Writing & Religion II, a report by the Texas Freedom Network. Apparently, many Texan pupils are being taught the myths of Creationism, including Young Earth creationism (i.e. the world is 6000 years old, etc).

Of course, first reaction to this is: "Well, this is Texas after all. Does any of this surprise you at all?" Now, to be clear: there are lots of good, honest, decent, reasonable people in Texas. Lots of them. Meanwhile, there are quite a few who are ignorant, dogmatic and close-minded as well - just like in any other place. I'm not going to delve into speculations about how prevalent one or the other are. That said, I guess each of us could figure out for themselves which of the two segments is practically running the place right now, no? I'm willing to bet the Bible literalists actually constitute a not-so-significant portion of the entire population, but just as it seems to have happened on Capitol Hill, society at large has somehow allowed a very vocal, very well-organized and very determined fringe group to hijack the discourse, and exert disproportionate influence on the entire process of shaping the future generations. Which is kind of unfortunate, because it creates a generation of scientifically illiterate people who then become tomorrow's hamburger flippers, a human mass that's easy to govern and be lead by the nose. To deliberately deform entire segments of the population in such a way and severely cripple their career and life opportunities, is basically a form of child abuse in my book, sorry for the hysterically sounding hyperbole.

But, but... what about free speech?!? )
[identity profile] peristaltor.livejournal.com
Waaay back in 2008, I came up with a theory of conservatism I called the Deist Miasma, an attempt to understand for myself why the religious in general and conservatives in particular have such violent reactions against theories that challenge traditional interpretations of reality (specifically in that post, Darwin's Theory of Natural Selection vs. Creation). In Part II, I further delved into the why of the conservative reaction by tying their rejection to the more emotional parts of the brain that irrationally reject concepts that create a sense of disgust. I got that concept from Steven Johnson's The Ghost Map, a fascinating book that chronicled the 1848-49 cholera outbreak and how a new germ theory of disease challenged the prevailing miasma theory.

Never heard of the miasma theory? In a nutshell, it's disgusting. )

And judging by our current economic situation, I'd say it well and truly isn't.

Addendum, later that day: [livejournal.com profile] chron_job's TED video embedded in the comments gives a good intro to the topic of how our brains are warped by disgust. Wish I had it for the initial post.
[identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com
Now on topic, at long last. And I swear, my dear, this ain't no Onion thingy!

Video shows 'scientist' in Congress saying evolution is from 'pit of Hell'

"U.S. Rep. Paul Broun's view that the theories of evolution and the big bang are "lies straight from the pit of Hell" is getting more exposure than he might have expected, thanks to a video that was made at a church-sponsored banquet in Georgia and distributed by a progressive political watchdog group."

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rikEWuBrkHc

Eh, I'm sure he was just kiddin', right? Like Rush Limbaugh who's not serious, but is rather a new unique type of comedian whose statements are not meant to be factual, right? RIGHT?

Oh wait. There's more...

It's gettin' weirdeeeer.... )
[identity profile] dv8nation.livejournal.com
http://io9.com/5915908/south-korea-will-remove-evolution-from-its-high-school-textbooks

It appears that the United States is not the only country having a hard time accepting evolution. According to a report in Nature, a South Korean creationist campaign has achieved victory in its efforts to see specific examples of evolution removed from high school text books. Their breakthrough is part of a larger campaign to see evolutionary theory removed as much as possible from educational materials.


I'm actually somehow surprised that another country could be more absurd about teaching evolution than the States. At least back in America the usual line is to teach either only evolution or present both sides. Korea is looking to chuck the evolution side all together. And this in a nation that's banking it's future on science in a lot of ways.

Of course, the source of this nonsense is unsurprising.


     South Korea's strong creationist sentiment is apparently due in part to its large Christian population. When it comes to evolutionary skepticism, surveys show that South Korea's numbers are comparable to those of the United States. Nearly one-third of South Koreans don't believe in evolution, claiming that there isn't enough scientific evidence to support it, or that it contradicted their religious beliefs. Others simply stated that they didn't understand the theory — an indication that evolutionary biology is insufficiently taught in that country. In fact, there are only 5-10 evolutionary scientists in South Korea who teach the theory of evolution in undergraduate and graduate schools.
     
Let me add some perspective. About 50% of Koreans are Christian. About 40% Prodastant and 10% Catholic if I remember my reading right. Churches in the Charismatic style seem to be catching on here. I've even come to see some of Seoul's resident crazy street prechers as living landmarks in a why.

Anyway, I'm not surprised at where this is coming from or that the government would cave. Public officials here fear bad press like a man covered in gasoline fears a hug from the Human Torch. But again, I'm hugely disappointed in South Korea here. The government has made a big to do about reworking Korea into a high tech society but right here we've got people afraid of the questions sciences brings. FAIL!

[identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com


My earlier post about the how badly Americans test on on even the most scientific facts was certainly a most lively discussion, with several replies suggesting that the polls really aren't representative or accurate assessments, or even if they were-- it didn't matter because, valuing science knowledge is wrong, because there's other important things to have knowledge about. Also some thread participants got bogged down in the format of the questions in one survey that was cited (even though there were two linked in the post, and there have been other studies that demonstrate the same results). But these studies aren't showing anything really unusual in just limiting this to just scientific literacy. American test scores in math and science have been below average with other countries, as well as literacy compared to other 1st world countries. But nothing highlights this better than the evolution versus creationism "debate."

More behind this cut )
[identity profile] green-man-2010.livejournal.com
You really have to feel sorry for kids living in the world's last remaining superpower, don't you?

I mean, it is not their fault that they get fed on junk food from Macdonalds that gives them an obesity problem, is it?
And now, people who are old enough to know better want to bring in legislation that will ' teach the controversy' in schools, and develope their 'critical thinking'... yeah, right !!!

Oh, before I forget, have a link:-
http://www.secularnewsdaily.com/2011/02/11/%E2%80%98science-guy%E2%80%99-speaks-out-bill-nye-says-nay-to-anti-evolution-crusade-as-bills-pop-up-in-the-states/

Now, the obligatory opinion.... Read more... )
[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
I've never understood the sense in how it is politically or socially viable to entertain the delusions of a group of people who really *are* stuck in a time-warp. The Creationist viewpoint is full of hoary old nostrums that Thomas Lyell and Charles Darwin debunked 150 years ago. The Creationist worldview is as follows: 6,000 years ago God created Heaven and Earth. Starlight beyond 6,000 light years is a great big lie, as God created it in situ, meaning what it records does not exist. Earth was formed from clay, and there was a literal firmament in the heavens. God also formed multiple "Kinds" (good luck ever getting a clear definition of THAT) in six days, culminating in two supermen, Adam and Eve. Then a talking snake convinces Eve to bite of the fruit, but 1,000-year old supermen build a technological civilization on par with modern society.

They of course evidently follow modern vices and so God decides it's time to wash it all away, except Noah's families. BTW, Creationism accepts as an article of Faith that Man is a hideously inbred type of animal. Eve is a kind of clone of Adam, taken from his penis bone uh, rib, yes, I meant rib. Thus all of these billions of long-lived supermen just so happen to be ridiculously inbred, helped by an understanding of genetics on par with Trofim Lysenko's understanding of biology. Thus God obliterates the world in a global flood. Ignore that Chinese and Egyptian sources march right on through the year 2438 BC like nothing happened.

Now *EVERYTHING* is ridiculously inbred and humans are perpetually declining in anything notable. God drew the continents on Earth, put all the animals there where they are. Wallace's Line is just because God's fickle like that. All cultures date to 6,000 years ago (while true in the sense that written history is only 6,000 years, there's 144,000 years that preceded that that are completely ignored by these people). There was absolutely no stone age, and Neanderthals were degenerated Nephilim, where Iapetos the Titan is a mythologized Japheth and Pan Gu is a mythologized Ham. All non-European/SW Asian peoples are Hamites, meant to labor for the benefit of the Japhethic Master Race.

Now, this on its surface is completely preposterous and absurd. There is not a scrap of evidence to support any of this. The real problem? These people also happen to be an overwhelming majority of Tea Party members. The Tea Party is overwhelmingly connected with Creationism: http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2010/02/will_christian_right_join_the_tea_party.html. It is also connected to the people (mainly with investments in petroleum energy) who deny that climate change exists, full-stop. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/21/us/politics/21climate.html. In fact belief in the Creationist view of climate (namely that it doesn't exist) is also correlated with the belief climate change does not also: http://beforeitsnews.com/story/231/512/Creationism_and_climate_change_skepticism:_Not_so_strange_bedfellows.html

Hence why it's important if we evolved along with the chimpanzee from a common ancestor and both of us descended from a primordial primate prior to the K-P boundary. The same people are the ones obstructing vitally needed things for our future.
[identity profile] mrbogey.livejournal.com
Ok, first off, Creationism is flat-out wrong. The closest to a decent argument it can make is that no one can know for certain what happened at the beginning of time, the Earth, and Man. And even that they usually get wrong because of an assumption that all theories deserve equal weighting.

But they're not stupid. Not in the conventional sense. They can perform complex tasks just like most any able bodied person. they possess, for the most part, basic reasoning skills.

So what makes the Creationist? The same thing that makes any partisan. They believe in confirmation bias the same as any. They select their sources and believe in their arguments and crowd out counterarguments. Not altogether different than a cult.

Of course to me there's several political ideologies akin to Creationism. Though unlike Creationism they enjoy modern widespread popularity. But the issue is still confirmation bias. How do you overcome it?
[identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com


Being in the United States is at times like a family reunion, you know the ones where you have some crazy ass uncle(s) who get a few whispered guffaws in the kitchen, and everyone cackles whenever they say something. While everyone unfairly picks on West Virginia (wink wink), and Arizona may have the maverick senator dude, and that wild and whacky governor, and then Alaska gave us the hockey-mom/pitbull with lipstick as a vice presidential candidate. But without a doubt, hands-down, Texas qualifies as this nation's crazy uncle at family reunions.

Case in point* )
-----------------------------
* Source: University of Texas / Texas Tribune poll. PDF here.
[identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com


Today, Glenn Beck informed his radio audience:


I don't think we came from monkeys. I think that's ridiculous. I haven't seen a half-monkey, half-person yet. If I get to the other side and God's like, 'You know what, yep, you were a monkey once,' I'll be shocked, but I'll be cool with it," "They [believers in evolution] have to make you care. They have to force it down your throat. When anybody has to force it -- it's a problem. You didn't have to force that the world was round. Truth is truth.


More behind the cut )
[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Presuming that this theory, which itself is no different than the same false ideas from the mid-19th Century (i.e. before anyone had ever even heard of Tyrannosaurus rex let alone the truly amazing prehistoric beasties) is valid, explain to me how it accounts for these phenomena:

1) The substrates that influence language families like the Sino-Tibetan and the Indo-European. Presuming that Creationist anthropology still adheres to the whole Shem-Ham-Japheth thing, it's fair to ask that if Japheth was the father of the Indo-Europeans, who then was the father of the Basques and Aquitainians and Picts?

2) Where did the Indians come from? Or Australian Aborigines? The Bible mentions nowhere in it the existence of either America (defined as Alaska-to-Tierra del Fuego) or Australasia/Oceania. So how can an honest, God-fearing Creationist accept these devil continents? And for that matter, how did in 6,000 years the 500 languages of Australia develop completely unique characteristics akin to a continental Sprachbund where Indigenous American languages are diverse enough to be as far apart as English is from Sora. And of course since the Bible nowhere mentions America, and only that which God mentions in the Bible is important to Creationists.......

3) What would an ecosystem with a mixture of mammalian megafauna (i.e. dire wolves, marsupial lions, ground sloths, and so on) and dinosaurian megafauna (tyrannosaurs, moas, dodos, carcharodontosaurs) and aquatic megafauna (pliosaurs and giant lamniforms) look like? How would it even function? How would any number of plants support populations of Amphicoelias fragilimis, woolly mammoths, ground sloths, bison, Triceratops horridus, and pronghorns all at the same time?

4) Given that in historical time the early Dutch saw the Bantu moving from the South at the same time as they arrived, how, then was the entirety of the Earth peopled in a mere 6,000 years? We're talking about a planet with entire swathes of it uninhabitable and where we are expected to believe that people would have willingly set sail across the Atlantic and Pacific (because there are no plate tectonics in Creationist theory) with outrigger canoes in a sea full of giant sea beasties that would willingly have swallowed everything imaginable.

If there are to be large-scale movements pushing this hoary old nonsense on our children & thereby handicapping our future, the least these political movements could do is explain these inconsistencies in their own mythology.
[identity profile] readherring.livejournal.com
Hello, my fellow intelligentsia,

I have a favor to ask. I'm trying to come up with a list of the 10 most influential books on creationism. I'm trying to get a feel of the entire creationist movement from the source, so I'm only looking for pro-creationist books.

This is for a project I'm working on. Last November, Ray Comfort gave out copies of Darwin's 'Origin of Species' on about 100 college campuses. He printed his own books - they prefaced Darwin's text with a 50-page introduction on creationism. In retaliation, I wrote a 20-page essay that ripped through his 50-page introduction. The essay was put on the download site one week before Comfort's give away, and I sent press releases to the student newspapers at America's top 100 schools. The idea was that the newspapers could include a link to my paper as they reported on Comfort's showy book give away, and students would have a direct reference available to debunk the book they just received that went page by page.

The response to my paper was pretty minimal, but then so was the response to Comfort's give-away. But since the few people who did read my paper told me that they really liked it, I'm trying to sustain my ego trip and expand it into a book. Hence, I need to understand the nuances of creationism from a creationist's point of view, not just a debunker's POV.

My possible list so far:
Darwin's Black Box - Michael J Behe
Of Pandas and People
Darwin on Trial - Phillip E Johnson

Thanks for the help, folks!
[identity profile] steve-potocin.livejournal.com
If you could change one plank on the Republican platform as it currently is.....which would it be?

Personally I'd get rid of the anti-Darwin/creationist elements.....if the Roman Catholic church can accept the theory of evolution, then so can other religious conservatives.....

Besides, Darwin is actually an important ally for Conservatives and Libertarians alike....his own writings and many recent developments in Sociobiology and Evolutionary Psychology are GREAT for fighting against the claims of Radical Feminimisn, Gender Theory, Social Constructionism, Egalitarianism and many other plagues of the Left......
[identity profile] prock.livejournal.com
[with apologies to [livejournal.com profile] mcpreacher for stepping on his post so soonly]

One recurring meme that's been popping around over the last couple of days is the idea that climate researchers (and those who trust climate research as a science) are some how in fits of contortions squirming about trying to rationalize this sudden cognitive dissonance. It's a good meme, tells a fun story, and like many memes is generally hogwash.

I spent some time today reading a thread of comments at esr's blog:

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=1447

There's a lot of discussion there, but for the most part it's a predictable display of global warming skeptics being unskeptical about anything which supports their position, and backers of science asking for more information, more context, and more data. In a poetic turn of events, one line of code has become the anti global warming movement's "hockey stick". The mere existence of commented out code somehow proves once and for all that climatology is just a house of cards, and if they could only pull that bit of code out and show everyone it would topple.

It's almost embarrassing to watch. But at the same time, it's sort of hilarious watching the skeptics try over and over again to prove by assertion that this data dump is the end of climate science. In the end, I expect that they whole lot of them will convince themselves that global warming is a fraud (your classic no-op) while generally sane people will continue to monitor scientific publications and/or broad surveys of results (also a no-op).

The most disturbing aspects of this whole debate are the parallels with creationism/intelligent design. Both anti-global warming zealots and creationists have done a great deal to dress up their rhetoric in the garb of science, but have had very little success in coming up with scientific models which validate their hypotheses. I wouldn't be surprised if 150 years from now, we still have tons of anti-science crusaders railing against climate science, despite the many probable leaps and bounds the field will make in that time. There's not much that can be done when it comes to certain kinds of irrationality it seems. I understand why some people flock to anti-Darwinism, but for the life of me I have no clue what it is about global warming that gets people's undies in such a bunch.

Does anyone have any idea what it is that attracts the wing nuts to anti-global warming?

[eta: quote which illustrates esr's own wing nuttery: "Creationism is certainly politicized science..." Yes, that's right. Some software guy railing against global warming thinks creationism is a science.]
[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/10/25/in_the_muslim_world_creationism_is_on_the_rise/

The sad part is that Muhammad himself said whoever denies science denies God. The sadder part is that this is pretty much Ken Ham's ideas with a little Arabic spliced in. The saddest part is that the Ottoman Empire itself embraced evolution where the modern-day apparatchiki of Turkey, the state that threw out an Emperor only to copy the legal system of Benito Mussolini's Italy are inexplicably supporting an idea in Islam that arises from North American Protestantism. WTF, dude?

This is my thought on this: Image behind a cut for people's FLs.  )

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