(no subject)

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

http://reason.com/archives/2013/06/12/three-reasons-the-nothing-to-hide-crowd
http://www.cato.org/blog/why-nsa-collecting-phone-records-problem
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110524/00084614407/privacy-is-not-secrecy-debunking-if-youve-got-nothing-to-hide-argument.shtml
http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/the-data-trust-blog/2009/02/debunking-a-myth-if-you-have-n.html

There are a significant number of people who respond to any revelation that government is violating the law (yes, the Constitution is part of the law) with a shrug and "I've got nothing to hide". These people are selfish fools at best. They are not looking at the bigger picture and/or aren't considering other people. Plus, they probably aren't paying attention to the fact that everyone in America is currently a criminal, that everyone violates a law with serious penalties at some point, whether you know it or not. (And the fact that that is the case is another problem, but that's outside the scope of my point here.)

Even Biden and Obama railed against what they are themselves supporting now, before they were in power. That alone should be enough to make you stop and think about what having that kind of power available can do to people.

Comments

[telemann.livejournal.com]

[stewstewstewdio.livejournal.com]

You know you just turned this into another gun debate. Ohhhhh, Noooooooos.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

That's nice, but I can't tell whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with Mr. Graham.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

John Oliver is a great substitute for Jon Stewart.

Just because you are paranoid does not mean that nobody is out to get you.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

I've been worried about this sort of thing since the Bush years, and if it happened during the Clinton ones I was too young to take it in. But, you know, everyone knows this all about party lines.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

Yep.



One of these things is not like the others.

Not a big deal, not a big deal, not a big deal, END OF THE FUCKING WORLD

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

But, you know, everyone knows this all about party lines.

That's just stupid.

[cinnamontoast.livejournal.com]

I've been struggling to remember the name of the data mining program that was used during the Bush years, but it's not bubbling to the surface and I'm not finding anything on the searches that I do.

Spying on American citizens has been going on for a long time and every modern President has done it in some way (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO). The depth and breadth of the programs change as technology changes. Hoover would have had happiness seizures if he had the Internet and Mobile phones.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

I will never forget those days of party lines:

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

There are those of us who understood the potential of such activity, only to be dismissed as conspiracy nuts.

The masses will not grasp the gravity of the situation. They have been trained to ignore such disturbances of their reality.

Anyone in the camp of 'I have nothing to hide' gets this question: then why do you still use passwords and online aliases ? I mean, come on, what is the difference between some bozo at Booz Allen and the rest of us knowing just what kind of porn you favor, and how long it runs before you are, um, finished?

What do you have to hide? And what do you do when your side or our country is no longer in control of the data?

Slinger's right, you government trusting types better think long and hard about this one.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

you government trusting types better think long and hard about this one.

I'm not holding my breath.

[luvdovz.livejournal.com]

OK, what follows after the thinking is done? WE WANT ACTION! Get your guns from the closet and set things right, yo! There's nothing to worry about if God's on your side!

Wait, where are you going?.....

Ah, just to fetch some popcorn. Fair enough then.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

Prophets are never welcome in their own country.

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

(And the fact that that is the case is another problem, but that's outside the scope of my point here.)

It should be a Monthy Topic, IMO.

http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

That's probably true.

[mikeyxw.livejournal.com]

+1 more. We've got an increasing population of folks in prison, more felonies that can be committed by accident, and ubiquitous surveillance. The legal system has moved from trying to convict the guilty to intimidate the suspected into taking a plea bargain. What about this doesn’t sound like we’re moving towards a police state?

[cheezyfish.livejournal.com]

That book looks like an interesting read. I may have to pick that up.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

For the record, starting a statement by lumping a whole group of people into the nicey-nicey qualification of "they are all selfish fools" does not serve well to foster a constructive debate, which I presume is what you must have intended when writing this post (the alternative being to just rile up a bunch of people for the sake of lullzy flame-war, for which there's a term that I'm sure you're very familiar with).

That said, I've generally been around the places you frequent for quite a while, and I don't seem to recall you having held Bush & Cheney's feet to the fire on the very same issue, the way you're apparently so eager to hold Biden & Obama now. Care to explain that discrepancy? Was it because you suddenly woke up to the realization that governments have been treading along the brink of the basic law of the land for ages, or does it, by chance, have something to do with your ideological affiliations?

You might not answer the latter question if you feel that you don't have the time to deign an elaboration for the selfish fools you've so kindly addressed.

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

So this community is totes about 'proper tone'? The point is still valid, even if the sentence and thought structure does not match the current acceptable paradigm. Whatever that is...

FWIW even though not directed at me, I did blame BushCheney. Pretty much did in the present tense up until he ceased the POTUS gig.

I don't think there was a whole group of people lumped here; merely the selfish and foolish ones. The rest are lemmings.

you mods sure like to play referee a lot.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Then you have a poor memory.

And I have no illusions that there will ever be a constructive debate in this community. I post to express myself, nothing more, nothing less. But if you can only think of two possible intentions, that's not my problem.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Bush signed the PATRIOT Act, Obama expanded it, McCain would've expanded it, and Romney would've expanded it. It's a bi-partisan effort to spy on us.

[mikeyxw.livejournal.com]

Absolutely. I'm not sure why people are making this a partisan issue. The Patriot act finds the kind of bipartisan love that congress usually reserves for apple pie and pay raises.

[root-fu.livejournal.com]

Granting a government additional surveillance powers that have a high potential to be abused with no oversight, safeguards or accountability is poor policy.

Whether or not someone has "something to hide" is off topic. That attitude often reveals a lack of questioning and skepticism where its needed the most.

[vehemencet-t.livejournal.com]

You know what is the worst thing?

No matter how much information is leaked or how far up the chain of power it goes or how widespread and utterly unjustified something like this is, it never seems to matter. And the reason can be clearly be gleaned just from reading the comments posted in places such as this.

Rather than mentally dealing with the actual issue, looking at the evidence, accepting the logical ramifications and deciding on a course of personal action, whether to decide that this kind of thing is necessary and desirable for one's personal security and safety and thus resolve to do nothing, or that it is decidedly not and join together with others who can agree to do something aimed at either exposing this more or stopping it (and DON'T mock me by saying "grab your guns LOLOLOL"--all it does is show you to be an idiot who clearly doesn't really care about contributing anything useful or productive to such a discussion), *instead* people fight over trying to shield their favorite political parties (members of both of whom are complicit in it) from wrongdoing, desperately trying to avoid sounding like one of the politics discussion taboo "out groups" like "conspiracy theoristssss" (don't wanna be called one of THEM do you?), making a big joke out of it which has the effect of desensitizing oneself and others to something that should probably be taken more seriously (after all the agents responsible for DOING this to us seem to take our porn, searches, chats and such rather seriously), claim that somehow this another right wing sabotage attempt on poor Obama by racists (as opposed to Yet Another Press Scandal going back to Fast & Furious, Benghazi, the IRS targeting of political opponents and now this--and I don't want to hear how it's "not his fault"--no it's not entirely his fault, but he is the current executive and just how like you would charge a restaurant manager if his establishment was serving shit and being unsafe, you call the executive to task for not managing the government he executes for), etc.

It galls me how no one can seem to fully agree on what seems like are fairly obvious wrongs, even when I think (whether it be drones, surveillance, FBI targeting protesters, etc.), now THIS will be something everyone can point to and say "enough!" or...something!

Nope, instead the circus just goes on and the powers that be can and will do whatever they want to further their interests and gains. And far too few meaningfully and effective oppose them because we are all so busy arguing with each other over it.

[existentme.livejournal.com]

Yes, this exactly.

It's simple tribalism that lends itself so easily to the machination of the state sponsored media, time and again. If it looks like they've got it down to a science, it's because it IS a science, this simple tribalism; as such it's as easy for the state machinery to manipulate as it as for an elementary student to manipulate simple equations.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

First the Feds came for the Communists and I did not say anything because I was not a Communist. Then the Feds came for the fellow travelers and I did not say anything because I was not a fellow traveler. Then the Feds came for the Tea Party and I did not say anything because I was not a Tea Partier. Then the Feds came for the whistle blowers and I did not say anything because I was not a whistle blower. By the time the Feds came for me there was nobody left to speak up for me.

This is what happens to people with nothing to hide:

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

From what I've seen: No laws have been broken.