(no subject)
12/6/13 19:05![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
gunslnger.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
talkpoliticshttp://reason.com/archives/2013/06/12/three-reasons-the-nothing-to-hide-crowd
http://www.cato.org/blog/why-nsa-collecting-phone-records-problem
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110524/00084614407/privacy-is-not-secrecy-debunking-if-youve-got-nothing-to-hide-argument.shtml
http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/the-data-trust-blog/2009/02/debunking-a-myth-if-you-have-n.html
There are a significant number of people who respond to any revelation that government is violating the law (yes, the Constitution is part of the law) with a shrug and "I've got nothing to hide". These people are selfish fools at best. They are not looking at the bigger picture and/or aren't considering other people. Plus, they probably aren't paying attention to the fact that everyone in America is currently a criminal, that everyone violates a law with serious penalties at some point, whether you know it or not. (And the fact that that is the case is another problem, but that's outside the scope of my point here.)
Even Biden and Obama railed against what they are themselves supporting now, before they were in power. That alone should be enough to make you stop and think about what having that kind of power available can do to people.
http://www.cato.org/blog/why-nsa-collecting-phone-records-problem
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110524/00084614407/privacy-is-not-secrecy-debunking-if-youve-got-nothing-to-hide-argument.shtml
http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/the-data-trust-blog/2009/02/debunking-a-myth-if-you-have-n.html
There are a significant number of people who respond to any revelation that government is violating the law (yes, the Constitution is part of the law) with a shrug and "I've got nothing to hide". These people are selfish fools at best. They are not looking at the bigger picture and/or aren't considering other people. Plus, they probably aren't paying attention to the fact that everyone in America is currently a criminal, that everyone violates a law with serious penalties at some point, whether you know it or not. (And the fact that that is the case is another problem, but that's outside the scope of my point here.)
Even Biden and Obama railed against what they are themselves supporting now, before they were in power. That alone should be enough to make you stop and think about what having that kind of power available can do to people.
(no subject)
Date: 13/6/13 13:42 (UTC)No matter how much information is leaked or how far up the chain of power it goes or how widespread and utterly unjustified something like this is, it never seems to matter. And the reason can be clearly be gleaned just from reading the comments posted in places such as this.
Rather than mentally dealing with the actual issue, looking at the evidence, accepting the logical ramifications and deciding on a course of personal action, whether to decide that this kind of thing is necessary and desirable for one's personal security and safety and thus resolve to do nothing, or that it is decidedly not and join together with others who can agree to do something aimed at either exposing this more or stopping it (and DON'T mock me by saying "grab your guns LOLOLOL"--all it does is show you to be an idiot who clearly doesn't really care about contributing anything useful or productive to such a discussion), *instead* people fight over trying to shield their favorite political parties (members of both of whom are complicit in it) from wrongdoing, desperately trying to avoid sounding like one of the politics discussion taboo "out groups" like "conspiracy theoristssss" (don't wanna be called one of THEM do you?), making a big joke out of it which has the effect of desensitizing oneself and others to something that should probably be taken more seriously (after all the agents responsible for DOING this to us seem to take our porn, searches, chats and such rather seriously), claim that somehow this another right wing sabotage attempt on poor Obama by racists (as opposed to Yet Another Press Scandal going back to Fast & Furious, Benghazi, the IRS targeting of political opponents and now this--and I don't want to hear how it's "not his fault"--no it's not entirely his fault, but he is the current executive and just how like you would charge a restaurant manager if his establishment was serving shit and being unsafe, you call the executive to task for not managing the government he executes for), etc.
It galls me how no one can seem to fully agree on what seems like are fairly obvious wrongs, even when I think (whether it be drones, surveillance, FBI targeting protesters, etc.), now THIS will be something everyone can point to and say "enough!" or...something!
Nope, instead the circus just goes on and the powers that be can and will do whatever they want to further their interests and gains. And far too few meaningfully and effective oppose them because we are all so busy arguing with each other over it.
(no subject)
Date: 13/6/13 14:18 (UTC)It's simple tribalism that lends itself so easily to the machination of the state sponsored media, time and again. If it looks like they've got it down to a science, it's because it IS a science, this simple tribalism; as such it's as easy for the state machinery to manipulate as it as for an elementary student to manipulate simple equations.
(no subject)
Date: 13/6/13 14:21 (UTC)For this particular issue, I might actually not object to what the NSA is doing (it depends on what they're doing, I'm not clear on what exactly it is they're doing). The AP phone taps I have no support for, and of course I don't support what the IRS was doing.
But as far as the NSA goes, I don't yet know what my opinion is, except that I believe Islamicist terrorists are something we'll have for another decade or two, but I doubt they'll be around 50 years from now. The government, on the other hand, will be. Should the government have this power (to use too stop terrorist attacks) indefinitely? Will they use it (and all the advances to come) on the Mafia? Street gangs? Murderers? Rapists? Armed Robbers? Burglars? ...And will they not use it on political opponents?
(no subject)
Date: 13/6/13 20:15 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 13/6/13 20:36 (UTC)All this I can take away from this little snit is that you are upset that your Mary Poppins world isn’t full of dancing and singing unicorns. Yes. What we are seeing is butt ugly and doesn’t fit into our fantasy of a wand being waved to make our country and world a safer place. Welcome to reality behind the scenes.
and I don't want to hear how it's "not his fault"--no it's not entirely his fault, but he is the current executive and just how like you would charge a restaurant manager if his establishment was serving shit and being unsafe, you call the executive to task for not managing the government he executes for
If you don’t know the difference between running a democratic country and a restaurant, then you obviously have no concept of either.
Nope, instead the circus just goes on and the powers that be can and will do whatever they want to further their interests and gains. And far too few meaningfully and effective oppose them because we are all so busy arguing with each other over it.
And your super magic solution would be what? Why haven’t you personally implemented it and made everything perfect?
(no subject)
Date: 14/6/13 10:07 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 14/6/13 10:51 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/13 03:23 (UTC)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViQg0_fTKsA
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/13/nsa-surveillance-guardian-poll-oversight
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/2013/0612/Actually-Americans-aren-t-shrugging-over-NSA-surveillance-video
I'll make sure you're on the list of people supporting tyranny though.
(no subject)
Date: 16/6/13 02:52 (UTC)The original Pew survey found that most people supported surveillance for national defense. Are you surprised that views have changed after the media was able to sensationalize a story like this and people have gravitated to their own personal pundits? The press is having a field day with this, just like We the Amateurs are by oversimplifying Constitutional interpretation to fit their own agenda.
I'll make sure you're on the list of people supporting tyranny though.
So says the anarchist.
(no subject)
Date: 26/6/13 09:37 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 27/6/13 12:02 (UTC)Also, hammering the Constitution into your personal interpretation is not your choice. We have a Supreme Court to interpret the Constitution, so your opinion of it doesn't matter to anybody. The ACLU has brought a legal challenge to government surveillance procedures, so I'm just going to grab a box of popcorn and see how this comes out.
(no subject)
Date: 29/6/13 00:29 (UTC)And yes, I am allowed to expound on what I believe the Constitution says, same as you. SCOTUS is doing the same thing, they just have people set up to follow what they say without question.