A question for the Right:

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

I wonder why, if the Health Care bill could be willingly defied because it's a "Bad law" and people can pick or choose what law they wish to follow the rhetoric suddenly does a 180 when it comes to the immigration bill? Why is Immigration so special an issue that it must be absolutely enforced, where the Health Care Bill, passed as it was by both Houses of Congress by all legal means (and with the added bonus of fitting right square into the 9th Amendment where the Arizona bill violates both the 14th Amendments and the Guarantee Clause) can be willfully disregarded?

Wasn't it not so long ago that people like Congresswoman Bachmann were suggesting that the Health Care law could be ignored? My feeling on this is that the Right Wing cares not one whit if the government extends its power into the lives of individuals but will scream bloody murder the very instant the government attempts to regulate corporations with anything approaching equal severity. For that matter, why does this bill receive support when it puts the onus on individuals, as opposed to things like the CEOs who hire mass illegal workforces so they can make money on the cheap and behave like Gilded Age Fat Cats? Surely if people were serious about the problem ensuring that corporations find no profit in lawbreaking and instead in hiring people who are here legally and citizens, however that is defined would be a help, no? Or would that be the bloody red hordes of Yekatirenberg ravening for the blood of the John Galts of the world?

Another simple, simple step to actually dealing with immigration that would be more than something directly out of the playbooks of totalitarian societies such as the Confederate States of America would be something as basic as simplifying the extremely cumbersome legal immigration process so it doesn't take 4 years and exhaustive work to become a naturalized citizen while simply walking over the border becomes the cheaper and more affordable option.

But alas, that doesn't send a tingle down the leg of El Rushbo and the "let's overthrow the guy who wants to ensure people don't die in emergency rooms because they lack insurance because he's TOTALLY EQUAL TO UNCLE JOE" crowd.

Comments

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

We're just gonna shoot ourselves in the foot on this thing. We should immediately legalize all the illegals, open the gates, and flood our country with young, new blood to maintain a less severe old-people-to-young-people ratio in the coming years.

I want fucking Mexicans, Russians, Ethiopians, Hmong, Chinese, fucking everything. Give that shit here, son.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

I congratulate you on the patience and skill with which you built your strawman, sir.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

and flood our country with young, new blood to maintain a less severe old-people-to-young-people ratio in the coming years.


That's right. Vampires gotta feed, y'know. Er I mean..

[eracerhead.livejournal.com]

Without immigration the US population would be shrinking, so yes, you have a point.

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Now that you've solved that, maybe you can explain how magnets work?

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Bachmann: Census Could Send People to Camps (http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/bachmann-census-camps/2009/06/26/id/331197)

[verytwistedmind.livejournal.com]

Interesting but what's the connection to underlankers clever OP?

“If we look at American history -- between 1942 and 1947 -- the data that was collected by the Census Bureau was handed over to the FBI and other organizations at the request of President Roosevelt,”

Wow Roosevelt was very heavy handed....

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

We should give Arizona back to Mexico. Maybe sign a contract to share visitation rights for the Grand Canyon.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Nah, I want to punish Mexico. So I'd give them California instead.....

[verytwistedmind.livejournal.com]

What about California and Texas?

[debergerac.livejournal.com]

naw, we should give mexico back to the aztecs.

when was the last time you saw an illegal aztec trying to sneak across the border?

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

And Louisiana back to France, Alaska to Russia, and 13 colonies back to England

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

The problem with that is most of the Mexicans in Az would fight that...That's why they left Mexico in the first place :P

[eracerhead.livejournal.com]

You see when it involves immigration, they want big intrusive government because government works. When it comes to health care they want no government because government doesn't work.

It would be interesting to find out how attitudes change if everyone without a birth certificate on their person at a tea party were arrested.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

I think it's time to start charging cops for not checking for papers.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Well, yes. Just as back in 2008 the Imperial Presidency was a ghastly threat to our Freedom but nowadays er mumblemumble.....

[verytwistedmind.livejournal.com]

I think you're confusing immigration and illegal immigration.

Do illegal immigrants have rights under the constitution?

My feeling on this is that the Right Wing cares not one whit if the government extends its power into the lives of individuals

The HealthCare bill mandates that one buy healthcare or be fined. That would affect individual lives.

9th Amendment: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Doesn't expanding healthcare negate the 9th Amendment? I admit I'm ignorant on it's legal interpretation.

I really don't understand how the 14th Amendment is violated here. What part of the Arizona bill violates what part of the 14th Amendment?

I also don't understand your interpretation of Article 4 of the Constitution. What about the Arizona law is in violation of that?

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

1) The concept didn't even exist until 50 years ago. If we start rejecting rights for illegals, what stops that from starting to snowball into American citizens? Bueller?

2) Healthcare is not a specific right enumerated under the Constitution, but as one of the human rights recognized in the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, it certainly qualifies.

The whole due process of law bit.

"The United States shall guarantee to each of the several states a republican form of government". This is not a republican government any more than the Jim Crow South was.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

I think worrying about the impact on illegal immigrants is a smaller issue than worrying about the impact on citizens that happen to have the unfortunate birth defect of not being white.

[rasilio.livejournal.com]

What an absolutely STUPID question, lets reword it...

A Question for the Left

"If immigration laws can be ignored because they are bad laws then why can't the Health Care Mandate and people can pick or chose what law they wish to follow"


Of course the really amusing part of the post is it exposes the essential hypocracy of the left just as surely as it does that of the right, and that is what makes it such a stupid question. See, it is not really a question but a rant in the form of a question, no answer is sought, the only goal is to make "the other guy" look bad. And yet, since the exact same argument applies to your side all you've done is managed to cover both the left and the right with shit so that all of us who sit outside that dichotomy can look at you and shake our heads that somehow 2 groups of people who are so full of shit have managed to take control over the national discourse.


See, the real question for both of you is why do you both rely on the rule of law when it is something you agree with but ignore it completely when you disagree (oh and for reference, no the Health Care Bill is not in line with ANY portion of the Constitution and clearly a violation of the 10th amendment).

Lets face it, neither side really gives a damn about the rule of law or the rights of the people, all they want to do is control people to make them behave in whatever the side you belong to considers the "right" way

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

I believe in a Plague on Both their Houses.

You've provided the answer I think is most accurate here, but then I'm also far too cynical and misanthropic for my age anyway.

[penguin42.livejournal.com]

I think it's a combination of "states rights" and "hey the law won't affect me"

This comment should not imply agreement with the AZ immigration law

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

and with the added bonus of fitting right square into the 9th Amendment

lol

Immigration is different because that's an actual power of the government, the borders and such.

Re: This comment should not imply agreement with the AZ immigration law

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Chapter and verse in the Constitution, please......

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

1. Because the Arizona immigration law is justified by the Federal Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1965. If the people complaining about the Arizona law would read that piece of Federal legislation, they'd probably shut up a hell of a lot faster about the issue.
2. There is nothing in the United States Constitution that allows the government to force people to purchase ANYTHING and if you'd like to claim that there is, then point it out already or move on.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

There is nothing in the Constitution justifying that monstrosity we call the Military-Industrial Complex, either. In fact, by the Strict Constructionist Mantra, the whole idea of a standing army is anathema. So logically the strict constructionists should favor a reversion back to the old system of a tiny standing army to be staffed by millions of volunteers when all Hell breaks loose, as it inevitably would......

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

Just a thought, your arguments would be better presented (IMO) without the hyperbole, and bringing in Bachmann and Rush.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

No hyperbole? Hey, you're talking to Under-L!

[root-fu.livejournal.com]

I think you nailed it with the health care -- immigration comparison.