It's like the Holocaust, no really

[kinvore.livejournal.com]

Wow. Pope Benedict's personal preacher Raniero Cantalamessa created a firestorm by comparing the scrutiny and pressure the Catholic Church has been experiencing lately in their molestation scandals to the "more shameful aspects of anti-Semitism."

This just further illustrates why the Roman Catholic Church will never take real steps to stop abuse. They aren't concerned with the children that are getting raped, they're only concerned with their own reputation. They see themselves as being wrongfully attacked, and never does it enter their minds that their actions (and lack thereof) contributed to what they are enduring now.

I hope the pressure never lets up but sooner or later the mainstream media will give up on it, only to flare up again down the road after more children have been raped, and the cycle will repeat again.

Pope Benedict, the only way this is going to end is if you take real steps towards stopping abuse. First of all stop protecting priests who molest children and treat it like the horrific sin (and crime) that it is. Throw them out of the Church and/or turn them in to law enforcement.

To help prevent this from happening as much you're going to have to allow priests to marry. Stop making excuses, stop covering up, and make a real effort to end this abuse.

Comments

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

To help prevent this from happening as much you're going to have to allow priests to marry.

Unrelated, unconnected.

Pope Benedict, the only way this is going to end is if you take real steps towards stopping abuse.

He is.

This just further illustrates why the Roman Catholic Church will never take real steps to stop abuse.

No it doesn't.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

gunslnger comment: check.

Contains mere talking points: check.

Unsupported by facts: check.

All in place. The world won't end today.

[qnetter]

"To help prevent this from happening as much you're going to have to allow priests to marry. "

Unrelated, unconnected.

Not in the least unrelated. Providing guys with unformed and damaged sexuality a respected career path that will shelter them from the "why aren't they connecting with women (or men)" questions while keeping them in contact with children is basically a "pedophiles line up here" invitation.

"Pope Benedict, the only way this is going to end is if you take real steps towards stopping abuse."

He is.

And those are...? Shuffling them to a distant town helps how?

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

No it doesn't.

Actually, by comparing the discomfort of the investigation of the church and it losing face over the pedophilia cases, to antisemitism, the pope is sending a strong signal that had these investigations of the church, by forces from outside the church not taken place, few to no steps would have been taken to stop the abuse. What the pope is signaling clear as day, in his populist and cheap rhetoric tries, is that he regrets the degradation of the church far more than the abuse its servants have taken part of.

You can say it doesn't until you turn blue, but the pope flaunts his primary motives by the way he phrases matters, which basic rhetoric analysis can reveal.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Not quite. Denying priests the opportunity to express healthy desires makes the priesthood a magnet for pedophiles regardless of the gender they target. Because in theory, priests are celibate, so there's no way that it would affect *them*.

Hallelujah.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

The self-destructive stubbornness of the Catholic Church would've probably been even amusing, had it not involved such horrible crimes against defenseless children. Instead, it can only fill me with helpless rage.

Re: Hallelujah.

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

Crimes against children, encouraging the spread of AIDS in Africa, encouraging anti-homosexual bias everywhere they can...

...yeah. It's terrible for the victims that this is how it has to happen, but the Church deserves all the shit it's getting. I've been enraged with it ever since it came out that one of the brothers (like male nuns) at my high school was a known sex offender who just got shuffled to New England. It's a conspiracy to cover up criminal activity. The confessional should not shield these people.

[thies.livejournal.com]

But it's impossible for the worlds greatest country and biggest economy to suddenly end up in a depression over some unpaid mortgages. The Jews did this.

Priest marry all the time.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

The Vatican is actually quite powerless in stopping priests from marrying. They'd like people to think that they control their flock as well as Peter controlled the flock of Jesus, but their lack of control shows them to be the worthless power structure that they are. The only true authority they have is in convincing Californians to defraud people of their civil rights, and at that they needed the assistance of their compatriots from the Great Salt Lake.

Re: Priest marry all the time.

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

Peter had some control issues of his own. A teacher of mine suggested that the early Christian church (as opposed to Gnostics or any of the other splinter sects) was defined by a conflict between Peter's Jews-Only Christianity, and Paul's Convert-The-Gentiles Christianity. The fact that Paul ended up being the mouthpiece of Christian doctrine in the Catholic catechism just means that he won, not that people were unified behind him.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Given that the Church has known this was going on since the 1960s I have no sympathy for the priests being butthurt.

oh snap

[thies.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's the priests who walked away butthurt...

[sgiffy.livejournal.com]

On the other hand creating a strong us-vs-them environment is great for maintaining membership in a cult. ;)

[dukexmachismo.livejournal.com]

When they came for the child molesters, I said nothing because...

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

This just further illustrates why the Roman Catholic Church will never take real steps to stop abuse. They aren't concerned with the children that are getting raped, they're only concerned with their own reputation. They see themselves as being wrongfully attacked, and never does it enter their minds that their actions (and lack thereof) contributed to what they are enduring now.

Yeah, the Church has a huge persecution complex. There's a Catholic League that operates like the press office of North Korea. They're mouthpieces for the regime.

Somebody argued today that Benedict is immune from prosecution because he's the head of a state (the Vatican). True, but seriously, what the fuck? Is that your real concern here, protecting the Pope, instead of fixing the issue?

The hierarchy of the Church desperately needs to be shaken up. It's clear that the current hierarchy is too invested in the lies to treat these issues fairly.

[thies.livejournal.com]

How can the mediators to god be in the wrong? It's impossible!

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

My favorite objection to Catholic splinter groups (yes, I have a favorite objection to Catholic splinter groups):
Empty Seat Catholics believe the Pope was wrong to approve the reforms of Vatican II.
One of the reforms of Vatican II was to render the Pope not 100%, all-the-time infallible.
So Empty Seat Catholics believe that the Pope was wrong to decide that he was fallible.

WTF EMPTY SEAT CATHOLICS

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

me too!

[drblkcrab.livejournal.com]

Is there a coorelation between this scandal and all the commercials I have seen for catholics come home lately?

Personally I find the pope and the Vatican reprehensible through this whole matter.

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

This just further illustrates why the Roman Catholic Church will never take real steps to stop abuse. They aren't concerned with the children that are getting raped, they're only concerned with their own reputation. They see themselves as being wrongfully attacked, and never does it enter their minds that their actions (and lack thereof) contributed to what they are enduring now.

I agree with this 100%. But, I don't think letting priests get married would do anything to help the problem. That was the one thing that jumped out at me as "wrong" -

[a4honor.livejournal.com]

I think it benefits us more to be concerned with the truth than what jumps out at you.

[kardashev.livejournal.com]

Godwin's Law needs to be imported to real life. This sort of thing is why.

[a4honor.livejournal.com]

Let me level the playing field here. I do not defend the actions of certain pedophile priests, and neither does anyone here, right or left is irrelevant, unanimously we would say that, Those actions are EVIL, unbecoming of any follower of God, let alone a priest. However, I also believe that many take this kind of situation as an opportunity to some how, "get back at God or at the church by slandering the entire organization. I believe this typer of action to be dishonest and indicative of problems rooted in a persons self esteem. I believe that if you slander the church, that may very well be slandering God. Whether or not you believe in Him now, any half intelligent person can understand that if He is real, then Slandering is the last thing you might want to do to him.

[usekh.livejournal.com]

When the Church as a organisation did all they could to hide the long term, systematic abuse of children it is not slander to point this out.

And as I don't believe god is real, I am going to slander your ridiculous sky fairy all I want.

[usekh.livejournal.com]

Wow, just when I thought they couldn't get any worse than "The Devil is behind the attacks"

[a4honor.livejournal.com]

Oh thats right. Those religious people are crazy. I have never heard that before. Just so we are clear, not believing in the devil doesn't get him to go away either. Disbelief is rather illogical, since you have nothing to loose for believing and so much to loose if you are wrong.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Andrew Greeley, a very liberal Catholic priest and sociologist wrote extensively on celibacy in the late 1970. He recently wrote about the child abuse cases and celibacy:

Here's his take on this. (http://reform-network.net/?p=1422)

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

nice article.

Time for Reform

[heroditus.livejournal.com]

This is one reason why when my wife and I got married, I would not agree to become catholic, or to raise our children in that manner. I think that if any reform is to take place it will come in one of two manners. 1. when the current Pope leaves office; or 2. when/if the American Church leaves the Roman faith. And why not let priests marry? They did once. How many illegitimate children did Popes have over over the last few thousand years? This is not to say that other churches do any better. But can anyone say HYPOCRACY?

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

So in the end, I watch, without a horse in the race.

Everyone has a horse in every race. Sorry, but if you say this:

You're pushing for reforms to an institution that have no merit, in and of themselves.

I don't see how you can say you have no horse in the race. Even though I agree with you on this:

Since when does marriage lower abuse?

I'd imagine since never.

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

Homosexual acts are legal in Vatican City, and the age of consent is 12. Being a sovereign nation, you'd think they could fix at least those parts.

[ryder-p-moses.livejournal.com]

Yeah they should totally get with the times and ban gay sex. That'll take care of the pedophiles.

btw

[dukexmachismo.livejournal.com]

Pedophiles, religion, Nazis.


If you could have worked a race angle in there, this would have been the best thread ever.

I'm just glad the Health Care Bill makes Unitarianism the national religion of the US.

[ex-restless.livejournal.com]

by comparing the scrutiny and pressure the Catholic Church has been experiencing lately in their molestation scandals to the "more shameful aspects of anti-Semitism."

No, he didn't.