Unnecessary shutdowns

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

The federal government is shutting down a lot of things that are either don't need to be shut down (because they cost no money to operate) or actually cost more to shut down than they do to keep operating. These include both national parks and government agency websites.

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/10/84362-13-national-parks-impacted-government-shutdown/
http://reason.com/blog/2013/10/02/government-will-shut-down-websites-even

We're at the point where the government is just being petty and working on zooming well past that point.

For those who think it's justified because the Republicans won't budge on Obamacare, that just doesn't fit the facts.



As a libertarian, I'm fine with permanently cutting 800,000 federal workers and I think it's nice that they've identified the agencies we can do without, but I'd rather it happen with at least the standard 2-week warning for people. Pretty much all politicians in office right now are acting like children, but that's what happens when the electorate is also.

Comments

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

Your graphic is unreadable, but I'm choosing to see that as a good thing.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

They compromised from defund obamacare to delay obamacare for a year.

Cause ya know, the GOP wouldn't use that delayed year to obstruct it *again* or anything.

[hardblue.livejournal.com]

Did you click on it? It should lead to the larger version. In sum, we should be impressed that the Republicans are willing to compromise from the debacle they created for themselves.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

*shrug* It was the only timeline I could find.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

This obsession over Obamacare is unhealthy.

The law passed, it happened, the president who it is named after won re-election, deal with it.

They better get used to not getting what they want. I don't think the public is going to reward the GOP over this. Notable republicans agree with this last POV.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Well, nowhere in the ACA does it mention Obama or Obamacare, that's a term Republicans came up with.

And Obama wore it like a badge of honor.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

"They better get used to not getting what they want. I don't think the public is going to reward the GOP over this."

I dunno, all the GOP has to do is make the public forget they caused this issue in the first place, which is exactly what they're doing right now and their songbirds are singing to their tune just fine it seems.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Because laws never have issues, are never revamped or changed, or even repealed, right? They're always perfect from the beginning?

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

"As a libertarian, I'm fine with permanently cutting 800,000 federal workers and I think it's nice that they've identified the agencies we can do without,"

Hope your passport doesn't need renewing, ever. And make sure you cook your meat to well-done because meat inspectors, few as there are now, won't be working. New foreign high tech workers that fill critical jobs at public and private pharmaceutical labs, computer software design shops won't get visas approved or renewed. So be prepared for even more jobs to go overseas.

Parks and monuments don't just magically keep running when the staff isn't there isn't there to oversee everything from security, to parking, to admission fees, to stocking the bathrooms with toilet paper. So be sure to bring your own TP, and go now, because they'll be in ruins in a few years without upkeep.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Yeah, and public schools don't deserve silly things like new hires or raises. Parks and museums don't need to be open.

For all the love of history and giving people opportunities, libertarians sure like to do a 180 when it comes to actually paying people to provide opportunities and revere history.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

Don't bother these people with facts, just let them feel good about opening up the moments right after shutting them down. They're trying to make blackmail look good using Münchausen syndrome by proxy.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

The FDA, yes we can do without them. Private standards groups/companies can take care of the same issues and do a better job at it. The other things are part of the state department which wouldn't be shut down. That's one of the pieces they're shutting down just to hurt people rather than because it saves money.

I guess you didn't read the article, which says that for most of the places being shut down, the costs are already covered or were offered to be covered by the state. So your objection is moot.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

New foreign high tech workers that fill critical jobs at public and private pharmaceutical labs, computer software design shops won't get visas approved or renewed

Way to fuck Silicon Valley.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

That graphic is hilarious. Apparently the Republican definition of compromise is "Don't worry, we won't get EVERYTHING we want. Just most of it."

Notice how much name-dropping always goes on with these things? Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank. They put pins on these people like magnets to attract hate, fear, paranoia. It's not Boehner and Cruz, it's 'House Republicans', but every time the Senate is mentioned? It's Harry Reid.

There's very specific framing in Republican propaganda that you can notice each time.

Here's a little hint for you guys: The Democrats don't want to touch Obamacare. That's what they want. Republicans compromising would begin with this, until then nothing they do can possibly be construed as a compromise. The fact of the matter is, neither side is compromising on this issue. To frame it in a way that only the Democrats are not compromising?

Pure, unadulterated dogma.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Apparently the Republican definition of compromise is "Don't worry, we won't get EVERYTHING we want. Just most of it."

That's not a Republican definition, that's THE definition.

n agreement or a settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions.

However, here we have one side making concessions and one side not making any. So who's trying to compromise?

The Democrats don't want to touch Obamacare.

That is the problem, as there are pieces of it that they could compromise on, if they got their heads out of their asses.

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

It staggers me that anyone complaining that people are framing the shut down contrary to "facts" would use such a staggeringly partisan and dishonestly framed info graphic as counter "argument".

It is tempting to suggest that said person is actually hoping to be openly mocked in response out of some perception that being mocked by certain interlocutors is a sign of being correct in and of itself.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

"I am being mocked, making me the victor!"

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

If you can find fault with the information in the graphic, rather than who put the graphic together, feel free. Otherwise, attacking the messenger is a sign that you're wrong.

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

As a libertarian, I'm fine with permanently cutting 800,000 federal workers

You need to learn that when it comes to emergency funding purposes, non-essential doesn't mean useless. These weren't 800,000 deadbeats collecting a check because it makes non-libertarians feel good.

I've yet to see evidence the "government" is being petty, other than House Republicans, who collect their checks regardless if they do any work as legislators or just spend time and money obstructing the work of others.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Closing the Veteran's Memorial is being petty. It's a sidewalk, that is open 24/7, with no security and no costs associated with it. It cost them money to close it and keep it closed. It costs nothing to leave it open. That is being petty.

It is petty to close not only Mt. Rushmore but roads outside of the park where you can see the mountain from.

It is petty to "shut down" a website by continuing to respond to requests, answer them, and then overwrite what you just sent with a new page that says it's shut down and you can't read what you just received. And since that's all run from the same server as normal, it's not saving any money.

[devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com]

I've worked in Yellowstone. You're dead wrong.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

You've worked in Yellowstone sometime in the past therefore I'm wrong about what exactly? That it's not closed? That's the only thing the article says about it. If you're saying I'm wrong about something else, how does you working at Yellowstone matter to that?

[luvdovz.livejournal.com]

I agree, those Democrats are such huge douchebags for wanting to shut down the government! They should be totally ashamed of themselves, and take example from the noble knights that are the good Republicans who are always fighting the good fight and doing everything for the people and who would never hurt anybody!

From your info-opinion-graphic:

"...a Continuing Resolution that would fully fund the government (including things that Republicans don't like)..."

I LOL'd hard right there. Is this what it all has boiled down to, at this point? Things we "like" or don't "like"?

You guys are sooo adorable.

[soliloquy76.livejournal.com]

Stopped reading the infographic after the first paragraph. There was no compromise here. A compromise implies that something new is to be gained by both involved parties as well as something given. Keeping government running is not something new, therefore cannot be considered a compromise for Democrats. What Republicans did was say "either you cut this thing we don't like, or you lose a bunch of other things that you like." That's extortion, plain and simple.

There's no rational justification for using a simple, routine budget that pays for government to extract demands and hold the entire nation (and the world, to a degree) hostage under threat of shutdown. That was Obama's and Senate Democrats' mistake -- and, indeed, a mistake made many times in the past -- giving in to these demands previously and institutionalizing this type of behavior. The problem becomes even more dire when the party making the demands -- or, at least, a faction of it -- exists only to dismantle the government piece by piece, which is something the majority of Americans do not support. In a representative democracy, a minority faction of a minority party should not be able to make such drastic demands that go against the will of the majority of the electorate.

Regardless of what the "Tea Party Patriiots" want you to believe, this crisis is 100% manufactured by them and their Republican cohorts and can end almost immediately if John Boehner allows a vote on a clean CR. One man can end this. This is not how a representative democracy works.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

New York Times: A Federal Budget Crisis Months in the Planning
This story may be buried in the news today, but the New York Times has a fascinating article on the current crisis in Washington. (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/us/a-federal-budget-crisis-months-in-the-planning.html?hp) What surprised me was seeing Ed Meese's name connected to it. Meese goes back to when Reagan was the governor in California; Meese served as Reagan's campaign manager in the 1980 election, and was a high ranking official in the White House, and chaired Reagan's anti-pornography commission.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

The reason they want to defund it so badly is because it will work, and that hurts the Republican brand. Whether or not it is good legislation is tertiary to this point.

[brother-dour.livejournal.com]

If by politicians and electorate acting like children you mean insisting on getting everything they want without concession or any honest attempt to do what brings the most good to the greatest number of people, I agree wholeheartedly.

However, this post makes me even more convinced that Libertarians are not the solution to Washington gridlock: Centrists in general are.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Go centrists!

Yeah. Like there are any electable centrists in the US.

[mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com]

"The federal government is shutting down a lot of things that are either don't need to be shut down (because they cost no money to operate)"

I know people are focusing on a lot of the other things raised in this entry, but I feel this is the biggest thing that needs to be highlighted.

It shows a general lack of understanding of the hidden costs of a lot of things like memorials, parks, websites, etc.

People think that because they just sit there, they have no cost.

Meanwhile, things like groundskeeping, security, electricity, any infrastructure that supports access to flow through taking place effectively, etc... those are all costs.

Is it as expensive as other things? No. But they're all costs.

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Also, does anyone think that national parks and monuments should just be left open and abandoned during a shutdown like this?