Unnecessary shutdowns

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

The federal government is shutting down a lot of things that are either don't need to be shut down (because they cost no money to operate) or actually cost more to shut down than they do to keep operating. These include both national parks and government agency websites.

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/10/84362-13-national-parks-impacted-government-shutdown/
http://reason.com/blog/2013/10/02/government-will-shut-down-websites-even

We're at the point where the government is just being petty and working on zooming well past that point.

For those who think it's justified because the Republicans won't budge on Obamacare, that just doesn't fit the facts.



As a libertarian, I'm fine with permanently cutting 800,000 federal workers and I think it's nice that they've identified the agencies we can do without, but I'd rather it happen with at least the standard 2-week warning for people. Pretty much all politicians in office right now are acting like children, but that's what happens when the electorate is also.

Comments

[cheezyfish.livejournal.com]

Maybe the guards who sit there to make sure no one gets in could supervise it? Or they could do what they did before the shutdown, and you know, not have anyone supervising.

[paft.livejournal.com]

Do you really not understand the difference between a security guard and someone who actually understands how to maintain a monument, pavements, lawns, scuptures, etc.?

[cheezyfish.livejournal.com]

The maintenance on a monument will require maintenance whether people are allowed in or not. The maintenance on a sidewalk and sculptures are long term things anyways, and people don't really have an impact. Weather does. The only problem would be trash, but then again we aren't exactly evacuating D.C. and putting barricades up around the city either are we? Regardless, it would be cheaper to have someone come once a week to pick up the trash than to pay park rangers to make sure no one enters the park, rangers that weren't required when the park was open. There are some parks that would have to be closed, like pearl harbor, yellowstone, etc. But places like the WW2 and Vietnam memorial, which are open 24/7 anyways, closing them cost more than it does to keep them open.

[paft.livejournal.com]

ch: The maintenance on a sidewalk and sculptures are long term things anyways, and people don't really have an impact.

Of course they have an impact. People climb on the sculptures, write things on them, throw things at them. And yes, people do have a impact on sidewalks. They don't just walk on sidewalks. Wheelchairs and carts are used on them, and vehicles are occasionally driven on them.

ch: Regardless, it would be cheaper to have someone come once a week to pick up the trash than to pay park rangers to make sure no one enters the park, rangers that weren't required when the park was open.

What makes you think park rangers aren't required when the park is open? And maintaining a park involves much, much more than someone coming in once a week to pick up trash.

What experience do you have in park and monument maintainance? I ask because, while I myself have none, I do know enough about gardening, landscaping, and the care of statues and pavements, to know that maintenance and protection of these amenities are not as simple as you seem to believe.

[cheezyfish.livejournal.com]

Of course they have an impact. People climb on the sculptures, write things on them, throw things at them.

Not really. People aren't as disrespectful as that. Hell, I was at the Arizona memorial the week before the shutdown, and people were actually rather polite and respectful. They weren't even talking loud or laughing. People walking up and defacing memorials is not a common problem. It's a mute point anyways, as these memorials are open 24/7, and are not guarded. Vandals have plenty opportunity to be vandals whether there is a shutdown or not.

And yes, people do have a impact on sidewalks. They don't just walk on sidewalks. Wheelchairs and carts are used on them, and vehicles are occasionally driven on them.

No, people walking or in wheelchairs or scooters do not have such an impact that a lack of maintenance for a week or four will have an effect. You don't need to repave sidewalks on a monthly basis, like ever. And vehicles? People don't drive through the mall to go see things.

What makes you think park rangers aren't required when the park is open?

I'm specifically talking about open air memorials that don't ever close. It is common knowledge that they are not guarded 24/7.

And maintaining a park involves much, much more than someone coming in once a week to pick up trash.

Then why not barricade all the federal parks in DC, instead of just a couple high profile ones?

[paft.livejournal.com]

ch: Not really. People aren't as disrespectful as that.

The above is classic libertarian faux naivete. Of course people are "as disrespectful as that." Frequently, they don't even grasp that they're being disprespectful. No, this is not true of the majority of people who visit and view public landmarks, but enough are clueless about the damage done by clambering around on public sculptures and marking them up to have an impact.

ch: No, people walking or in wheelchairs or scooters do not have such an impact that a lack of maintenance for a week or four will have an effect.

Four weeks? And you know this because...?

ch: Then why not barricade all the federal parks in DC, instead of just a couple high profile ones?

Maybe because they would like to leave at least a few open. The high profile parks are more likely to require a security presence.

[cheezyfish.livejournal.com]

but enough are clueless about the damage done by clambering around on public sculptures and marking them up to have an impact.
Then why is there no security during normal operations? Even at the Arizona memorial, no employees were there watching me. They only were there to tell me its time to get back on the ferry.

Four weeks? And you know this because...?
Are you asking why I said four weeks or why sidewalks will be fine without maintenance in four weeks. I said four weeks because I just gave a time period. One that I thought was worst cause scenario. No specific reason. My real guess would be 2 weeks. Why sidewalks don't need maintenance in that time frame... it's common sense.

Maybe because they would like to leave at least a few open.

DC announced that they were picking up trash at 372 locations where the NPS stopped doing it. Now, 372 locations probably refers to multiple locations per park, but still, a bit more than a few.

The high profile parks are more likely to require a security presence.
So let me get this straight. The argument to barricade these parks is because there is no funding for security. So instead of having security at the memorial's, they place security, security they couldn't afford in the first place, outside to guard barricades to keep people out. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, nevermind the fact that the memorials didn't require guarding under normal conditions anyways.