I've been wanting a post like this for a while...

[raichu100.livejournal.com]

...and no one has written it, so I'm taking the initiative.

In a recent post by the_rukh there was a heated ensuing discussion about whether it's appropriate to give advice to women to help them prevent being raped. One of the things that came up repeatedly in the discussion was that whether or not the advice was appropriate (and that is NOT the focus of this post so please don't argue about that here...) it was far more important to take other measures to prevent rape, and also treat rape victims (something that wasn't focused on in the post but which surfaced a great deal in the discussion). I realized that was something that needed to be discussed, and as has been pointed out to me, this is a topic on which I know little, though I have strong opinions. So, what do you guys think?

1. What are the most important steps that should be taken to prevent rape and decrease its prevalence in our society?
2. What are the most important steps that should be taken to improve treatment for rape victims?
3. How about the justice system? What needs improvement there, and how do we make those improvements?

I want to hear from the people who know more about this and I'm hoping to learn something (or many things). I also would like to continue the effort of creating a dialogue that all people who hate rape can contribute to.

Oh, and in case I haven't emphasized this enough, LET'S AVOID TALKING ABOUT GIVING ADVICE and focus on the other parts of the equation.

Comments

[nano-muse.livejournal.com]

All of these are broad and oversimplified, but in a general sense...


1. What are the most important steps that should be taken to prevent rape and decrease its prevalence in our society?

Reduce the culture of turning women into meat or sex objects, and perhaps educate men on the female side of sexuality, the importance of consent, ect ect - it's easy to go on about consent and its role in our society, but it means nothing when my male friends don't know how having sex with an unconscious drunk woman is rape. A lot of colleges open with long orientations for women on how not to get raped - perhaps there should be one for men on how to have enjoyable sex without committing rape.

2. What are the most important steps that should be taken to improve treatment for rape victims?

Make more options available in as widespread of an area or as many areas as possible. Make these options widely known and information about them easily accessible. Make them anonymous, and try and keep the prices low (depending on country/healthcare system), and remove age constrictions.

3. How about the justice system? What needs improvement there, and how do we make those improvements?

Again, emphasis here is education - specifically train police officers and investigators on not just sexual assault and how to handle it, but just what the victim is likely to feel and how to deal with it. The police officer infamous for making that remark about how women shouldn't dress as sluts probably didn't understand just how much victim-blaming women get already, and how "slut" is such a broad term that his advice is useless, meaningless, and that makes it demeaning.

[paft.livejournal.com]

Really, I think cutting down on incidences of rape is going to involve a massive shift in male attitudes towards women. Men will have to get over several widespread concepts:

1. Men will have to get over the notion that women owe them sex.

2. Men will have to stop defining women strictly in terms of whether they are sexually desirable or not.

3. Men will have to get over the idea that having sex with someone is a way of establishing ownership of or superiority over that person.

4. Men will have to get over the notion of women as property or territory.

Number 3 in particular can be applied not only to the rape of women by men, but the rape of men by men, which in some cases (as in prison rape) seems to be related to deliberately degrading the rape victim, putting him in the role of a woman.

Until this miraculous shift in attitude takes place, all women can do is stay aware of the dangers around us.

And believe me -- after a certain age, most of us are.

[southwest]

It is interesting how everything starts with "men will have to..."
What about women, will not they have to do anything?
Like start carrying small, but powerful handgun in their purse?

[harry-beast.livejournal.com]

Widespread concepts? Not in the West. None of these concepts have had any social or legal validity for about the last century, or maybe longer. Any man who holds these attitudes would be considered a total whack job. A legal defense of a rape charge based on any these points would briefly make headlines for being sensationally out of touch with reality, and then the guy would decisively lose his case and get thrown in jail. Or the looney bin.
#2 might arguably apply to certain immature men, but then women have no obligation to be defined by anyone else, so really, they're off the hook.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

The problem with rape is that it is often conceived of within bourgeois paradigms, wherein the pro-active way to prevent it is couched within middle-class or upper middle class terms of buying things or paying for training, or utilizing any number of costly measures.

The fact remains that the most vulnerable and destitute in society remain the most victimized, including minors and women not of consensual age. College students are also vulnerable, as many of them live within strict financial allowances.

Perhaps the most ridiculous advice is to tell someone to go a seminar on kicking men in the nuts, or some kind of "martial arts". Of course, "martial arts" are about useless if you don't have a lifetime of reflexivity, muscle memory and training.

Until sexual attitudes are tempered with sexual ethics, rape will remain a problem, as sex is related to two other things: power and punishment. If and until men are taught not to be scumbag date-raping morons... well then, nothing will change.

[southwest]

But the question remains, what the society can do? Perhaps we can learn from other countries, which have more successfully dealt with the problem. According to the unbiased statistical date, the lowest rape incidents per capita is recorded in Saudi Arabia. Perhaps, they are doing something right.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

1) Make sure everyone knows the warning signs, and is prepared. That means anyone who's in a public place and may see something shady, and yes, that means possible victims understanding the inherent risks and being prepared.

2) I'm not sure what this is asking. If there's an area lacking, then I'm unaware of it.

3) We need some societal evolution here. The default when someone is accused of rape is guilt, so that needs to be adjusted a bit. Beyond that, we need to make it more sensible for women to come forward. If the true number of unreported rapes is anywhere close to the estimate, that's something that can be improved upon.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

How many more posts about rape and abortion before everyone pukes collectively? Is there any sub-sub-sub-issue of the issue that we haven't discussed yet? Seems yes.

/pukes lavishly again/

(Don't worry, not your fault. Must be the pregnancy. Can't be otherwise).

I summon everybody who'd like to join my Alliance Against Rape/Abortion Posts, and post as many maximum-interesting non-abortion-non-rape posts as they can. There's candy!

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

Where do i sign?

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

Alternatively if a subject does not interest someone they can just scroll right by it...

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Eh, just pass on like the rest of us men who wouldn't like risking saying anything wrong and then being hated, etc.

[airiefairie.livejournal.com]

I can do that. In fact I have one or two interesting topics in mind that I might write about soon.

[stewstewstewdio.livejournal.com]

How many more posts about rape and abortion before everyone pukes collectively?

Like I said. This community has become totally Oprahfied. I, for one am getting a little sick of being expected to apologize for being a man.

[oportet.livejournal.com]

Encourage the reporting of rapes and attempted rapes.

I know plenty of jokes can be made and plenty of holes can be punched into the suggestion of sex contracts, but it would be a start. Most people over the age of consent have cell phones, it couldn't be that hard to tie the two together.

Not allowing advice might make for a more reasonable discussion here, but it should be said that someone giving advice isn't necessarily a rapist, and isn't necessarily blaming rape victims for being raped.

[raichu100.livejournal.com]

"Not allowing advice might make for a more reasonable discussion here, but it should be said that someone giving advice isn't necessarily a rapist, and isn't necessarily blaming rape victims for being raped."

I agree with that, I was just trying to keep this post more, er, polite because I know it's a sensitive topic (from direct and recent experience). :)

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

Apologies for hijacking your thread. You have every reason to hate me...

/clubs self/

[paft.livejournal.com]

Don't club yourself. In a weird way, you've actually cast a certain light on the subject, this leg of the discussion prompting comments like:

"Well, it could be that most of us are scared by the prospect of being misunderstood (we're men, after all), and then hauled by raging women."

The attitudes reflected in this and some other comments about discussing the issue of rape are themselves worth contemplating.

[eracerhead.livejournal.com]

1. What are the most important steps that should be taken to prevent rape and decrease its prevalence in our society?

Prevention, not a thing we can do to prevent it. Decreasing the prevalence would likely require working with high-risk males as early in life as possible. Also good parenting and sex education would help. And yes, parents should also help protect their daughters by openly talking about it and giving them the knowledge of how to reduce their risk. If you cannot talk to your daughter about sex, then how can you talk to her about rape?

2. What are the most important steps that should be taken to improve treatment for rape victims?

For one thing, take the accusation seriously in every case. A determination can be made after things cool down and play out as to the veracity of the claim.

3. How about the justice system? What needs improvement there, and how do we make those improvements?

I know I'll probably take heat for this, but if you want more successful prosecutions for rape we need to lessen the penalties. The stiffer the penalty the more difficult it is to convict. If for example the death penalty is the punishment for rape, very few are likely to be convicted.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

1. What are the most important steps that should be taken to prevent rape and decrease its prevalence in our society?

Teach young men to respect women. Teach young men empathy. Teach young men to value women as human.

2. What are the most important steps that should be taken to improve treatment for rape victims?

Don't charge them for treatment. Remove stigma from treatment.


3. How about the justice system? What needs improvement there, and how do we make those improvements?

This is a question that I have no good answer for...

[dwer.livejournal.com]

1. What are the most important steps that should be taken to prevent rape and decrease its prevalence in our society?

Teach men and boys that no means no, period.

2. What are the most important steps that should be taken to improve treatment for rape victims?

All sorts of things, from not charging them for their own rape kits, to not blaming them for being raped.

3. How about the justice system? What needs improvement there, and how do we make those improvements?

Make it clear to defense attorneys that blaming the victim is unacceptable.

[paedraggaidin.livejournal.com]

1. What are the most important steps that should be taken to prevent rape and decrease its prevalence in our society?

Education (I'd go so far as to say indoctrination...some things just need to be driven home with a proverbial pile driver over and over until they stick in the head) that no always means no, there is never any middle ground, that ever taking advantage of someone because they are intoxicated/incapacitated is always wrong no matter what.

It'd also help if nearly every genre of popular music from rock and metal to rap and hip hop stopped portraying women as sexual trophies, only worthy of being alive if they're sexually satisfying a male.

2. What are the most important steps that should be taken to improve treatment for rape victims?

Make it absolutely free and absolutely discreet.

3. How about the justice system? What needs improvement there, and how do we make those improvements?

Rape shield laws need to be tightened and strictly enforced, especially in the case of celebrities (see: Kobe Bryant). I'd thus retool Federal Rule of Evidence 412(b) (http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rules.htm#Rule412) (and the state rules based on it) to completely remove 412(b)(1)(b), expand (c) to explain which constitutional rights it affects and how, and very narrowly construe (a), because it's theoretically too easy to get around the shield laws in its name. Ideally, any Media should face huge fines (on the order of $1,000,000 per victim, and yes I am serious) for ever releasing the name or other information of an alleged sexual assault victim.

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

Some people have giving good suggestions here already, I just want to add my 2 cents by saying (once again)

..that rape statistically usually doesn't take place in some dark alley or by some shady man hiding in bushes.

These are very common rape scenarios:

Date rape
work place party
family member or friend of family rapes
a person in authority
an acquaintance in a "normal" setting (not a bar or dark outdoor place)
spouses/partners/boyfriends

..and then we have the complete stranger rapist, to add to this. But as long as people keep thinking that most rape happens in a certain setting by your generic shady rapist stereotype in a dark alley, we will continue getting stupid advice such as comparisons to getting your wallet stolen in an alley or women carrying handguns and thus making rape statistics drop.

The first and foremost thing that needs to be taught to boys and girls is the sanctity of their bodies and that it is a crime to violate that. This needs to be taught very early and not just about sexuality of course, but about violence in general. Most societies today don't actively teach or discuss this until at best, way late when kids have reached their teens.

Too many guys and gals get their basic sex ed from porn, and that leads to pretty fucked up values as well, as teen gang rapes where teenage boys "re-enact" pron scenes with a way too drunk girl.

I'm gonna go ahead and say it: Some rapists are "normal guys". There are rapists who are pathological and have mental issues, but a hefty percentage are guys who do it because they think they can get away with it, or because they fuck up due to other non pathological reasons. These rapists may not be serial rapists, but they are still rapists and there are many of them around.

This is NOT the same as saying that all men are potential rapists, it simply means that a rapist is not such an easy thing to recognize always. They can be handsome young men, who could get a girl willing to be with him easily, or they can be a timid looking intellectual, or whomever. There can be signs, but they are not always so easy to see in a short time span.

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

I just realizes I got so caught up in the thread above I didn't give my opinion on this.

1. I touched on this in the other post, so this is a repeat. Parents need to teach their sons that women are to be respected, and to have a conversation with them about rape, especially in social situations where drinking is involved. Parents of daughters need to share the statistical likelihood of them being assaulted in such a situation so they can be on the lookout for danger signs. Rape education should also be a part of sex ed in schools.

The entertainment business needs to stop glorifying sexual violence against women as children learn a great deal from this.

I could go on about this at great length but I'm going to recommend a very good book on the subject for any one who has further interest in the subject Transforming a Rape Culture (http://www.amazon.com/Transforming-Rape-Culture-Emilie-Buchwald/dp/1571312692/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1307913951&sr=8-2)

2. Give them more respect. Stop questioning every action they did or didn't take, make counseling available immediately, and have police work with those experts to transform the justice system that victimizes rape victims all over again.

3. I guess I answered this one above, but also blaming defenses, and questions about the victims past sexual relationships should be banned from the courtroom. I realize this may not be allowed, but it is on my wishlist should I become ruler of the world :p

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

All of this.

[root-fu.livejournal.com]

1. What are the most important steps that should be taken to prevent rape and decrease its prevalence in our society?
Preventionism > reactionism.

2. What are the most important steps that should be taken to improve treatment for rape victims?
Ensure rape victims are covered under healthcare and that government funding is available to cover costs for those who are uninsured. In Sarah Palin's Alaska you pay out of pocket expenses to be treated.

3. How about the justice system? What needs improvement there, and how do we make those improvements?
I think 10% of accused rapists are eventually convicted in the United States. Then there are rapists who are never accused. The odds are heavily stacked against successfully prosecuting someone for rape.

[candysgirl.livejournal.com]

1. What are the most important steps that should be taken to prevent rape and decrease its prevalence in our society?

Harsher sentences and easier convictions. Clearer legal definition of what rape is (i.e. not always the stranger in the dark alley), etc.

2. What are the most important steps that should be taken to improve treatment for rape victims?

Quit blaming the victim. I know several women who have been raped who attempted to prosecute their rapists. Not a single one was convicted. I know other women who were raped, but wouldn't prosecute because it the prevailing attitude in this state (Indiana) is of blaming the victim (dressed too slutty, wrong place/wrong time, you were drinking, etc.).

Two had children by the rapists. One of men pays child support to the tune of $25/mo (yes, $25, not a typo - he put everything in his wife's name and works only part time so he doesn't have to pay more in child support) and the state changed the child's last name to that of the rapist because he pays child support despite the fact that he has seen the child 3 times in 11 years and regularly makes disparaging remarks about the fact that the child was born deaf. The other was drugged and raped at a party. That rapist managed to get a court order to have an abortion blocked. The child was given up for adoption at birth. The woman lost her job when she got put on bed rest for the last 2 months of the pregnancy and then had complications with delivery and couldn't work for another two months. She would have lost her car and apartment had the adoptive parents not stepped in and paid her bills. Several years later, she is married and trying to have a child with her husband. She may not be able to.

Make treatment more readily available and government funded. Many rape victims don't have health insurance or if they do, rape/complications of rape/pregnancy/childbirth are not necessarily covered. Don't make it mandatory for medical personnel to report rape (for adults, kids are a whole different ball game).

3. How about the justice system? What needs improvement there, and how do we make those improvements?

Make prosecutors unable to blame the victim.

[raichu100.livejournal.com]

ugh, that's horrible. Those are the sort of stories I didn't ever hear before recently...I can't believe we actually let people get away with that. (And I saw "we" even more literally because I live in Indiana. -.-)

Makes me wonder...how many of these archaic laws (like giving a child the last name of a rapist, or letting a RAPIST let alone anyone legally block an abortion - and I don't even like abortion but jeez!) wouldn't be there if people were more aware of them and took the time to fight them. I think they would face a strong opposition...

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

1. kill all men.

That should solve the problem, and all others too.

[paft.livejournal.com]

Is anyone promoting such an idea, or are you just typing to be typing?