I've been wanting a post like this for a while...

[raichu100.livejournal.com]

...and no one has written it, so I'm taking the initiative.

In a recent post by the_rukh there was a heated ensuing discussion about whether it's appropriate to give advice to women to help them prevent being raped. One of the things that came up repeatedly in the discussion was that whether or not the advice was appropriate (and that is NOT the focus of this post so please don't argue about that here...) it was far more important to take other measures to prevent rape, and also treat rape victims (something that wasn't focused on in the post but which surfaced a great deal in the discussion). I realized that was something that needed to be discussed, and as has been pointed out to me, this is a topic on which I know little, though I have strong opinions. So, what do you guys think?

1. What are the most important steps that should be taken to prevent rape and decrease its prevalence in our society?
2. What are the most important steps that should be taken to improve treatment for rape victims?
3. How about the justice system? What needs improvement there, and how do we make those improvements?

I want to hear from the people who know more about this and I'm hoping to learn something (or many things). I also would like to continue the effort of creating a dialogue that all people who hate rape can contribute to.

Oh, and in case I haven't emphasized this enough, LET'S AVOID TALKING ABOUT GIVING ADVICE and focus on the other parts of the equation.

Comments

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

Apologies for hijacking your thread. You have every reason to hate me...

/clubs self/

[paft.livejournal.com]

Don't club yourself. In a weird way, you've actually cast a certain light on the subject, this leg of the discussion prompting comments like:

"Well, it could be that most of us are scared by the prospect of being misunderstood (we're men, after all), and then hauled by raging women."

The attitudes reflected in this and some other comments about discussing the issue of rape are themselves worth contemplating.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

I think they are, but I'm not sure how exactly you interpreted it.

[paft.livejournal.com]

Well, I interpret it as the same thing I've been hearing from many men for years whenever an issue that specifically involves women is brought up. To paraphrase -- "women are so darned emotional that there's no point in even attempting to discuss this rationally."

For the record, I think any discussion of an issue related to sex is likely to cause a lot of heated and dumb rhetoric on both sides. On issues like rape and abortion, however, I've not noticed that women are predominantly less rational than men. On the contrary, women tend to be a bit better informed, for obvious reasons.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

I surely saw several guys making that argument, yes. Htpcl wasn't one of them. Let's not ascribe someone else's points to someone else, OK? I hate assuming things about people.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

Yes, I certainly didn't take that from your words. Also, I would hope that on some woman's issues if you had a viewpoint you would feel free to share it. How can we all learn and expand our views if we are holding back out of fear? I may not agree with what you have to say but I would hope that I would respectfully share why, and I hope that others would do the same. It's the same as with any issue really.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

I have to admit 'fear' was a bit too strong of a word (an attempt at hyperbole perhaps, my bad). No, maybe not fear but a thought at the back of my mind.

Sure I'd share my viewpoint on women's issues wherever I feel like I'm competent enough. I cannot claim to be competent enough on the issues of abortion and rape, sorry.

[paft.livejournal.com]

I think the term "raging women" definitely invites that interpretation.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I didn't read it that way. And I'm a woman who often rages :)

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Please do not equate me to "those many men" (because the cited comment was indeed mine). That's exactly what I meant when I said there's a risk of one's words being lumped into the common pattern of interpretation and then re-interpreted the way that suits the listener.

> To paraphrase -- "women are so darned emotional that there's no point in even attempting to discuss this rationally."

I'm just going to say No. That's not my point and it's a bit insulting to do such an equation. See? Men could feel emotions too, which is not a bad thing when you think about it.

[paft.livejournal.com]

Then you should probably avoid using terms like "raging women."

Often what I see happening in these debates is that male posters interpret "most rapists are men" as "most men are rapists," or interpret "what you said is sexist" as "I HATE YOU, YOU EVIL SEXIST!"

The fact that a woman disagrees with you on an issue like this -- or even the fact that she considers something you said unfair or sexist -- does not mean she hates you. It means she disagrees with you.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Yes, bad choice of words perhaps. But you should've really waited to see where the debate goes, first. Anyway, no biggie.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Indeed, that's what I said. I'd rather not speak on things I don't fully understand (being a man and all that), rather than risking saying something that would be interpreted in the wrong way and then all hell breaks loose. No, thanks. I'm just going to supervise and make sure it doesn't get too rough, that's all. But I wouldn't whine about it.

[luvdovz.livejournal.com]

At least you know and recognize the limits of your own competence. That's rare.

[raichu100.livejournal.com]

I ain't mad. :)