Cops and Teachers? THEY Don't Pay Taxes!

[paft.livejournal.com]

Wisconsin State Assemblyman Robin Vos lets us all know what he thinks of those taxpaying Wisconsin citizens who work in the public sector:

The reality is they haven’t had to pay for these things, they’re upset about doing it now, and the taxpayers are the ones who definitely understand this because they get it, they’ve been doing this in the private sector for years, it’s time we had the same thing happen in the public sector…The fact that my Democratic colleagues want to go back to the taxpayer and have them pay higher taxes because someone shouldn’t pay 12% towards their healthcare….We are standing with the taxpayers all across Wisconsin. It’s amazing the outpouring of support that we’ve been getting from the people outside the Capitol Square, the people who are in the reality of the world, not the place that we’re sitting.

Howard Dean does a very good job of refuting Kudlow and Vos’ fiction that the demonstrations are all about the cuts in benefits and not about the elimination of collective bargaining. The capper to this exchange, however, comes near the end of the segment, when a sign appears just over Vos’ shoulder on the right. Not the kind of thing Kudlow could choreograph.

It beautifully highlights the idiocy of Vos' fiction that the demonstrators are, in some fundamental way, less American than other Americans. Does he really think cops and teachers don't pay taxes, or “live in the reality of the world?”

Crossposted from Thoughtcrimes
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Comments

[paft.livejournal.com]

When did I express an aversion to cops?

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

The only reason to support Walker is because he wants to eliminate collective bargaining for public sector unions.

If he would eliminate public sector unions entirely I'd be even happier.

[paft.livejournal.com]

So you'd like him to eliminate pretty much the foundation of worker's rights.

[jerseycajun.livejournal.com]

"If he would eliminate public sector unions entirely I'd be even happier."

I don't buy Paft's "worker's rights" angle as the only rights I acknowledge are the ones shared by virtue of common humanity, not conditions of employment, but one of the rights that does fall into our common humanity is freedom of association.

I understand the aversion to the affect of public sector unions have on politics and policy, but at the same time, how do you do this without simultaneously stomping on freedom of association, because I don't think you can.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

The problem with this is the Wagner Act. So much for "We want law and order." You only care about it when Republicans are out of power.

[anadinboy.livejournal.com]

they dont pay taxes, its the same money going round and round. They are a kind of tax- paying pastiche

[paft.livejournal.com]

Really? Cops, teachers, and other public sector employees don't fill out IRS tax forms? They don't pay sales taxes? And they get paid JUST AS MUCH as private sector employees?

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

I like the word "power" better. This is about power, and its about time we stop with the pious verbiage and come to terms with what is going on. They have a power, and they are seeking destroy another power. I am siding with labor power. That's it. This is the game. Win or lose, with no apologetics. Hoist the sails ye sons of England!

[paft.livejournal.com]

Using "power" in this manner implies that labor power is as pervasive and well-funded as the power of the private sector. Sorry, but it's not -- or at least it's not in the United States.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Stay the mainsail! Jibber the jigs! Secure the pointy things! Run up the lines! Run about! Act like you're doing something! Stow the heavy things, heave the stowed things!

What we need is some:

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

class warfare

Hear Hear!!!

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

And I side with management.

Dueling benefits at dawn.

[ytterbius.livejournal.com]

Kudlow is an ass, but at least he had Dean on there for a solid moment of debate.

[mijopo.livejournal.com]

Yeah, was just going to comment on what an ass Kudlow was in interviewiewing. Dean notes how the budget crisis was manufactured, and Kudlow responds by feeding Vos some talking points reminding him to say that those incentives were necessary to keep businesses from leaving Wisconsin. And then, with a pitying and disgusted voice, invites Vos to weight in about those mean union protesters trying to drown him out. Hey, dummies, here's an idea, if you don't want to get drowned out by protesters have the guy sit in a fucking studio instead of out in the street.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Does he really think cops and teachers don't pay taxes, or “live in the reality of the world?”

It's never implied that he thinks cops and teachers don't pay taxes.

As for the latter, though, I'd hope so - the demonstrators clearly do not live in a reality that most of the rest of us recognize.

[paft.livejournal.com]

"Us?"

Those many cops, teachers and firemen in that crowd may not live in YOUR reality...

[mijopo.livejournal.com]

Here's some data on the "reality": http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2011/02/are_wisconsins_state_and_local.html

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

What pisses me off is I work for a unionized company that is very reasonable so far when it comes to pay and benefits for union workers. We're a nation-wide company and yet people at every turn seem to not consider it as an advantage and crow about how wonderful our non-unionized competitors, who treat their workers like trash, are.

So yea, if you're pro-union, unless you have a unionized company for your telecom service then shut your trap about supporting unions.

I've supported American workers at every opportunity I could and I'm tired of foreign car driving people who don't buy union telling me I'm not supporting American workers because I vote conservatively.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Many conservative voters I've met have had a strong dislike for unions. So, you might not be supporting unions by voting conservative.

That said, I don't drive any kind of car, foreign or domestic.

[nevermind6794.livejournal.com]

Yeah, more people should realize the ramifications of their economic activity. That doesn't really address anyone's argument here.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

OMG. I thought only Fox was so horribly right wing biased that it had become satire. The host saying "are you undemocratic" to Dean; the setting, Dean, the "Ivory Tower Elitist" with all his books, whilst the other dude is out there in the street, battling the unruly mob; "are they trying to drown you out?", as if they're trying to stop him from having his say. Umm, no, they're protesting, they tend to be loud.

I like how these protests are destroying democracy, but the Tea Party ones are FFFRRRREEEEEEEEEDDDDOOOOMMM Derp herp herp.

No wonder you can't have a reasonable political conversation in the US, there is no reasonable news sources that are just trying to convey information. It's all cheerleading and infotainment.

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

I like how these protests are destroying democracy, but the Tea Party ones are FFFRRRREEEEEEEEEDDDDOOOOMMM

actually the question was about the politicians fleeing the state to prevent a vote from taking place.

[http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/]

Somewhat off-topic, but tangential to what's been going on:

What people fail to discuss when they claim that public sector employees get more benefits than private sector ones is that maybe these people do a job that is more important and thus deserve more benefits. Maybe this is not widely believed in our profit-obsessed culture, but each individual teacher and policeman has more responsibility than the average person in the private sector and should therefore receive more compensation, assuming equal levels of training and experience.

The common reply is that no job "deserves" any more or less than any other; the economy bestows the relative merits (and compensation) of each job in a natural way. What this neglects to mention is that the way the economy functions is itself made up of value judgements. The car industry is larger than the bicycle industry because we value cars more than bicycles. Ultimately, we choose how valuable these things are to us by how we spend our money, and that goes for policemen and teachers as well. This fact is impossible to avoid whether you think public sector employees get too much, not enough or just the right amount: all of these opinions rely on value judgements.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

They've also spent decades trading wages for benefits so that governments of the day could have now, pay later. Now it's later...

Let this be a lesson to workers, take the wages today, even if it bankrupts the company, there will be no tomorrow when it comes to benefits.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

The truly horrible bit about his wanting to play at Victorianism is that this deficit would not exist if he wasn't trying to cut taxes *and* maintain the existing infrastructure, if without means to pay for it. Had Wisconsin retained ordinary tax levels this issue would not exist. It does not, and so a governor wanting to use soldiers on strikers is hailed as a champion of liberty and justice for all. His actions also violate the Wagner Act, but then the GOP only cares about Law and Order when out of power.

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

Had Wisconsin retained ordinary tax levels this issue would not exist.

not true (http://politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/feb/18/rachel-maddow/rachel-maddow-says-wisconsin-track-have-budget-sur/)

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Man there's a lot of union hate up in here.

Privatize the police force! For a monthly fee you can have your telephone line connected to 911. Upgrade to premium and your response times will be cut in half!

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

If that went along with a tax reduction, sounds like a great plan.