Cops and Teachers? THEY Don't Pay Taxes!

[paft.livejournal.com]

Wisconsin State Assemblyman Robin Vos lets us all know what he thinks of those taxpaying Wisconsin citizens who work in the public sector:

The reality is they haven’t had to pay for these things, they’re upset about doing it now, and the taxpayers are the ones who definitely understand this because they get it, they’ve been doing this in the private sector for years, it’s time we had the same thing happen in the public sector…The fact that my Democratic colleagues want to go back to the taxpayer and have them pay higher taxes because someone shouldn’t pay 12% towards their healthcare….We are standing with the taxpayers all across Wisconsin. It’s amazing the outpouring of support that we’ve been getting from the people outside the Capitol Square, the people who are in the reality of the world, not the place that we’re sitting.

Howard Dean does a very good job of refuting Kudlow and Vos’ fiction that the demonstrations are all about the cuts in benefits and not about the elimination of collective bargaining. The capper to this exchange, however, comes near the end of the segment, when a sign appears just over Vos’ shoulder on the right. Not the kind of thing Kudlow could choreograph.

It beautifully highlights the idiocy of Vos' fiction that the demonstrators are, in some fundamental way, less American than other Americans. Does he really think cops and teachers don't pay taxes, or “live in the reality of the world?”

Crossposted from Thoughtcrimes
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Comments

[paft.livejournal.com]

w: your fearmongering is quite funny.

Your naivete is not.

w: whats funny is you have such faith in labor unions to do whats right for students and educators, but are scared of those evil principals just waiting in the wings to become slave drivers.

Have I advocated the abolition of principals? Have I declared that schools have no need of principals (or other forms of management) because, as human beings, principals might occasionally abuse their position?

w: no, i mean the ones that got labor laws passed back in the 30's and 40's.

And what forces campaigned for those labor laws?

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

as human beings, principals might occasionally abuse their position?

and you think a union is going to prevent this? thats naivete paft.

And what forces campaigned for those labor laws?

unions, back when they served a purpose. today a lot of them just gin up fear and create boogeymen to justify their mandatory union dues.

[paft.livejournal.com]

paft: as human beings, principals might occasionally abuse their position?
w: and you think a union is going to prevent this? thats naivete paft.

Unions in combination with state laws? Yes, they will. Unions already shown themselves to be an effective force for improving the lot of workers. As you've already admitted.

pft: And what forces campaigned for those labor laws?
w: unions, back when they served a purpose.

And in the absence of unions, what's to prevent those laws from being repealed, overridden, or just flouted?

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

Unions already shown themselves to be an effective force for improving the lot of workers

they served their purpose, and now they have to create perpetual enemies to justify their continued dues.

what's to prevent those laws from being repealed, overridden, or just flouted?

citizens, politicians, police, regulators.

[paft.livejournal.com]

paft: wAnd in the absence of unions, what's to prevent those laws from being repealed, overridden, or just flouted??
waf: citizens,

There weren't any citizens around before unions? There aren't any citizens in areas where collusion laws and worker safety laws are flouted openly?

waf: politicians,

There weren't any politicians around before unions? There aren't any politicians in areas where collusion laws and worker safety laws are flouted openly?

waf: police,

There weren't any police around before unions? There aren't any police in areas where collusion laws and worker safety laws are flouted openly?

You've never heard of police beating the cr*p out of union members legally picketing (like, oh, during the shirtwaist strike in New York shortly before the Triangle factory fire?)

waf: Regulators

There aren't any regulators in areas where collusion laws and worker safety laws are flouted openly? And what "regulators" will be in place if, in the absence of unions, influential pro-business lobbyists manage to get worker safety rules either rescinded or defunded to the point where hardly any regulators exist, and no serious penalties are enforced when violations are revealed?

Do yourself a favor. Read up on the history of unions, and the roles that politicians and police played in suppressing them.

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

Read up on the history of unions, and the roles that politicians and police played in suppressing them.

do yourself a favor paft, and start living in the present era, instead of constantly going back to the past. times have changed. were not living in the 1930's. you're just paranoid, and trying to pass the paranoia onto as many people as possible.

[paft.livejournal.com]

Human nature has not changed to the point where the forces that made unions necessary have magically vanished.

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

good thing scott walker isn't getting rid of unions then.

[paft.livejournal.com]

Not if those demonstrators have anything to do with it.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

In the presence of unions, what's to prevent those laws from being repealed, overridden, or just flouted? It's the exact same answer, because unions are irrelevant to that question. The people prevent it.

[paft.livejournal.com]

How?

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Any way you want.

[paft.livejournal.com]

In other words, you don't have a clue.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

If that's how you want to misinterpret what I said, I can't stop you.

[paft.livejournal.com]

It's obvious you can't think of a single thing.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

I can, but I don't need to, as it's not relevant.

[paft.livejournal.com]

(VBG) Of COURSE you can! Why, if you WANTED to, you could provide all KINDS of relevant facts, and answer all KINDS of questions! You could do it with one hand tied behind your back! You could do it BLINDFOLDED!

But...well...youduWANNA! You just don't feel like it. You're NOT just a frustrated troll posting the occasional brainburp because you can't offer anything else.

No, you're NOT.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

No, I don't need to because one, the answer was already given to you, and two, because it's funny to see you force yourself to contradict your positions based on the statements of others, and it's funnier that you probably can't even see it.