Cops and Teachers? THEY Don't Pay Taxes!

[paft.livejournal.com]

Wisconsin State Assemblyman Robin Vos lets us all know what he thinks of those taxpaying Wisconsin citizens who work in the public sector:

The reality is they haven’t had to pay for these things, they’re upset about doing it now, and the taxpayers are the ones who definitely understand this because they get it, they’ve been doing this in the private sector for years, it’s time we had the same thing happen in the public sector…The fact that my Democratic colleagues want to go back to the taxpayer and have them pay higher taxes because someone shouldn’t pay 12% towards their healthcare….We are standing with the taxpayers all across Wisconsin. It’s amazing the outpouring of support that we’ve been getting from the people outside the Capitol Square, the people who are in the reality of the world, not the place that we’re sitting.

Howard Dean does a very good job of refuting Kudlow and Vos’ fiction that the demonstrations are all about the cuts in benefits and not about the elimination of collective bargaining. The capper to this exchange, however, comes near the end of the segment, when a sign appears just over Vos’ shoulder on the right. Not the kind of thing Kudlow could choreograph.

It beautifully highlights the idiocy of Vos' fiction that the demonstrators are, in some fundamental way, less American than other Americans. Does he really think cops and teachers don't pay taxes, or “live in the reality of the world?”

Crossposted from Thoughtcrimes
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Comments

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Why would I want to guarantee anything?

[http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/]

So that everyone has access to education.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

As long as people aren't prevented from it, then everyone has access. Being able to afford it is different. And that doesn't even get into the issue of what level of education do you want to provide to everyone.

But again, why would I want to guarantee anything, not just education? It would be nice if the world was magic like that though, sure.

[http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/]

No, not being able to afford it is the same thing as not having access. If I say you have access to a new car, but you don't have enough money to buy one, you really don't have access to it. Honestly I don't see how you can support a libertarian boot-straps worldview without also advocating that everyone has basic access to education; seems more like a recipe for some kind of hereditary oligarchy.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Because as long as people aren't prevented from it, someone will provide it. Mandating someone to provide it is contrary to freedom for all. It doesn't matter if "it" is education, health care, or tvs.

[http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/]

1) I see no reason to assume that all needs will be magically met if people aren't prevented from pursuing those needs.

2) I can see why in some way mandating anything is indeed infringing on freedom. That's only a problem if you think that freedom is the only important thing though, as anyone who enjoys having courts and national defense either explicitly or implicitly believes.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

1. Of course not. So what?
2. I don't see the connection you're trying to make here. And for reference, I didn't say freedom was the only important thing, just the most important.

[http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/]

Re 2: Alright, but let's not split hairs. I'm saying that if you believe that both freedom and education are important, then you might be willing to sacrifice a limited amount of freedom for a lot of education, even if ultimately you believe that freedom is more important. Doesn't that make sense?

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

I don't consider gov't mandated education to be important.

[http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/]

So in your ideal world, the children of the poor would only have access to education pending the approval of some wealthy benefactor?

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

No, that's not the only alternative.

[http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/]

* I mean to say people that enjoy courts and national defense do not believe that freedom is the only important thing, either explicitly or implicitly.