Religion and the death penalty.

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty religious and also pretty liberal (in the American sense of the word) I became liberal (I used to be a Libertarian when I was younger) gradually as I've gotten older and generally been impressed with how well liberal institutions work. I regard politics as more practical than moral and don't think I have any right to have my own religious notions of morality enforced on others. Like many liberals, I object to the death penalty because if its long history of racist, classist and anti-male** application and its inherent imperfections (a single innocent being executed invalidates the whole institution.)

But, unlike other political positions I have, my disdain for the death penalty coincides with my religious beliefs on the matter. Mainly, that God's justice is perfect, God will send the sinners to hell and the righteous to heaven and it's not really possible for us, as mere mortals, to tell which is which. As such, justice as in retribution is a matter for God. We would do best to respect life and ensure our safety by locking up people who hurt others.

Yet I find that many people who are religious have no problem with the death penalty-- since religion tends to intersect of conservative politics more often. Or is there a religious connection there as well?

• Roman Catholic Church says that the death penalty is "lawful slaying" and basis this on it being a necessary deterrent and prevention method, but not as a means of vengeance. So, if it is ineffective as a deterrent (there is some evidence that this is true) --would they reject it? Recently they have though not very vocally.
• Anglican and Episcopalian bishops condemned the death penalty.
• Southern Baptist Convention updated Baptist Faith and Message. In it the convention officially sanctioned the use of capital punishment by the State. It said that it is the duty of the state to execute those guilty of murder and that God established capital punishment in the Noahic Covenant. This is different from the Roman Catholic take on it-- no mention of it excluding vengeance.
• Other Baptists reject the death penalty, my church does!
• Like Christians, Islam and Buddhists and Jews do not have a united stance on the matter.
• Atheists also have many views on the matter.

So, based on all of that, do we find no guidance in religion? I wonder how I would feel about the matter if the religious teachings I have encountered didn't match with my philosophical notions-- Is it always the case that one must shape the other? Is there anyone who thinks the death penalty should be allowed, though they suppose it is sinful or against their religion? Is there anyone who wants to stop the death penalty though they think it might not be a sin?


**We could talk about how believing it is wrong to kill a woman still further dehumanizes her-- the global effect of this furthesr sexism against women, the local effect is unfair to poor, mostly minority, men.

Comments

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

This has nothing to do with what you need to assume I do or don't know. Your entire discussion of salvation has failed to mention the cross at all. You did not fail to mention the cross because of your assumptions about what I do or don't know. You failed to mention it because you are trusting yourself for your salvation. You are trusting your own belief and your own good works. You think God saves because of justice. But this is completely wrong. God saves because of mercy.

For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

"Good works" have nothing to do with it! And it's beyond annoying when you tell me what I'm trying to do-- I know that, not you. You say "I'm trusting my own belief" -- if you know evangelicals, so well, then what is that belief in?

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

No, it's completely evident that you think salvation is a matter of justice. You've said so repeatedly -- while neglecting altogether to mention the cross. I gave you plenty of opportunities to mention it. That's one of the reasons I held off on bringing it up for this long. Your failure to make any reference to the death of God on the cross out of His love for sinners is a plain diagnostic that your gospel is faulty. I pray that you gain a new revelation of His mercy and grace.

"For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved."

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

No, it's completely evident that you think salvation is a matter of justice.

No, I don't. And if you think that's what evangelicals think you need to believe in to be saved you are totally incorrect.

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

And yet it is precisely what you keep stating. And, no, I don't think that is what evangelicals believe generally. Like any category of belief, it has its variants. But, again, your ongoing failure to give the sacrifice of Christ on the cross even a passing mention is plain evidence that your gospel is not the gospel of the apostles.

Instead of continuing to debate with me, you should really focus on fixing that.

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

You seem to presume that I'm incurious in my faith and that a few message board comments give you a full picture of my faith. From the way that you said this it made me feel like your main aim was not to help me as a fellow Christian but rather to simply make me feel like a bad or stupid person.

I don't need you to tell me that I should continue to see deeper understanding of God word. We all should.

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

I don't need you to tell me that I should continue to see deeper understanding of God word. We all should

Sigh. I am not simply telling you to "continue to see deeper understanding of God word." I am telling you that your assertions in this post were egregiously problematic. The cross is not merely something "deeper" in God's word. It is the very heart of our faith. The fact that you continue to defend your own statements, minimize this error, and impute evil motives to me shows me the problem is pretty deep. So I guess I'm done.

May God bless you with a revelation of the centrality of the cross to our doctrine of salvation -- and of the amazing victory His love has won by the mercy and grace, not judgment.