Religion and the death penalty.

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty religious and also pretty liberal (in the American sense of the word) I became liberal (I used to be a Libertarian when I was younger) gradually as I've gotten older and generally been impressed with how well liberal institutions work. I regard politics as more practical than moral and don't think I have any right to have my own religious notions of morality enforced on others. Like many liberals, I object to the death penalty because if its long history of racist, classist and anti-male** application and its inherent imperfections (a single innocent being executed invalidates the whole institution.)

But, unlike other political positions I have, my disdain for the death penalty coincides with my religious beliefs on the matter. Mainly, that God's justice is perfect, God will send the sinners to hell and the righteous to heaven and it's not really possible for us, as mere mortals, to tell which is which. As such, justice as in retribution is a matter for God. We would do best to respect life and ensure our safety by locking up people who hurt others.

Yet I find that many people who are religious have no problem with the death penalty-- since religion tends to intersect of conservative politics more often. Or is there a religious connection there as well?

• Roman Catholic Church says that the death penalty is "lawful slaying" and basis this on it being a necessary deterrent and prevention method, but not as a means of vengeance. So, if it is ineffective as a deterrent (there is some evidence that this is true) --would they reject it? Recently they have though not very vocally.
• Anglican and Episcopalian bishops condemned the death penalty.
• Southern Baptist Convention updated Baptist Faith and Message. In it the convention officially sanctioned the use of capital punishment by the State. It said that it is the duty of the state to execute those guilty of murder and that God established capital punishment in the Noahic Covenant. This is different from the Roman Catholic take on it-- no mention of it excluding vengeance.
• Other Baptists reject the death penalty, my church does!
• Like Christians, Islam and Buddhists and Jews do not have a united stance on the matter.
• Atheists also have many views on the matter.

So, based on all of that, do we find no guidance in religion? I wonder how I would feel about the matter if the religious teachings I have encountered didn't match with my philosophical notions-- Is it always the case that one must shape the other? Is there anyone who thinks the death penalty should be allowed, though they suppose it is sinful or against their religion? Is there anyone who wants to stop the death penalty though they think it might not be a sin?


**We could talk about how believing it is wrong to kill a woman still further dehumanizes her-- the global effect of this furthesr sexism against women, the local effect is unfair to poor, mostly minority, men.

Comments

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

I think between the options of life in prison with no possibility of parole and the death penalty, I'd choose the lethal injection. Is it more humane to keep people in cages for 50+ years or just admit that since we will never release them back into the world, just end it?

And yes, it sits a lot better when we're only executing the guilty.

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

Do you think anyone would choose death over life in prison? I wouldn't.

[mijopo.livejournal.com]

. Mainly, that God's justice is perfect, God will send the sinners to hell and the righteous to heaven and it's not really possible for us, as mere mortals, to tell which is which. As such, justice as in retribution is a matter for God

So the state should refrain from any sort of retributive justice, what sort of justice does the state dole out in non-capital punishment cases?

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

Restore rehabilitate, protect the innocent.

Jail terms, punitive damages, community service can all serve this purpose.

[uses4safetypins.livejournal.com]

We need reform not punishment.

[mijopo.livejournal.com]

I think that there's a rehabilitative component to sentencing now, but there's also undeniably a retributive component.

[laurenigmatic.livejournal.com]

Is there anyone who wants to stop the death penalty though they think it might not be a sin?

Well that would be anyone who is not religious and against the death penalty, right?

Do people find no guidance in religion? Seems that way sometimes...usually in the political realm, religion is manipulated in order justify immoral acts. Should people find guidance in religion when dealing with policy? I personally think no, not at all. A lot of ideas within specific religions are impractical, anti-humanistic and obscure, so if you remove all that noise, what do you have? You have basic human ideals not specific to any religion. Also, many of these ideals can and do exist without religion - like the golden rule for instance. I'm an atheist and a big believer in the golden rule. No need to look to religion for inspiration to be good or do what's right for humankind.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

You can find guidance in religion, the way you can find guidance in a fiction book, or a scientific theory, or your grandma's dinner table fables. You can find guidance in whatever you choose, and religion is what you choose it to be. If the religious teachings you have encountered didn't match with your philosophical notions, you're free to ignore those religious teachings and stick to your philosophical notions. You're totally free from any bounds. Religion should be there for comfort, often guidance, but never for shoving someone else's ethic into your throat. In this sense, I understand that religion could be very useful, or could be very harmful - depends how it is used. And I'm saying it as a complete atheist - by choice.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

I can't say that I have a visceral reaction against capital punishment. My general belief is that those who are given the legal powers to take life should be liable to the death penalty. For instance, police, soldiers, and stuff like that. I'm not so much for the death penalty in the civilian world, but I'm totally for the death penalty in the military and war time.

I don't really have a cogent view on it at the time. Discussing our actual, current situation is way different that discussing it theoretically.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Well maybe it'll sound unfair to their victims, but these criminals could be presented with a choice: die now, or rot in a cell for the rest of your life (with an option to ask for death at any given moment). How about this idea?

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Is there anyone who wants to stop the death penalty though they think it might not be a sin?

This is where I sit. I'm an atheist, so sin doesn't really play into it, but I've become uncomfortable with the idea of the state having the final say on the life and death of its people.

I used to be pretty pro-death penalty, but that aspect of it finally turned me around a few years back.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

A personal experience? Sorry for asking about private things, don't answer if it's too personal.

[mcpreacher.livejournal.com]

they are currently private and they're horrific

[mcpreacher.livejournal.com]

alley oop

http://reidscones.com/prison/

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

That would work for me.

[http://users.livejournal.com/little_e_/]

Ultimately, I think people chose religious views which match their personal ones, not the other way around. So people who are okay with killing people will justify it via religion, and people who aren't okay with it will find religious reasons not to be.

[mcpreacher.livejournal.com]

"Who do you think some of the strongest proponents of drug prohibition are?

...private prison contractors?

[mcpreacher.livejournal.com]

The Red Onion State Prison in Wise County, VA is identical to the Wallens Ridge prison in Big Stone Gap (pictured). These are Level 6 supermax facilities- general population here is equivalent to SHU time at other prisons. Essentially, these places are SHUs. Punishments at these facilities include being strapped spread-eagle on a steel slab in your underwear and then turning the temperature down while not allowing you up to use the toilet, and leaving you in your own filth for a couple days. This is in violation of federal law, the US constitution, international treaties, and United Nations guidelines on prisoner treatment.

this is not a function of a government that holds too much power over private enterprise

[jennem.livejournal.com]

Roman Catholic Church says that the death penalty is "lawful slaying" and basis this on it being a necessary deterrent and prevention method, but not as a means of vengeance. So, if it is ineffective as a deterrent (there is some evidence that this is true) --would they reject it? Recently they have though not very vocally. Citation needed.

Last time I checked, the Vatican opposed the death penalty.

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Ever watched a documentary about maximum-security prison or read modern accounts? If I knew I'd never get out of one of those places, I think lethal injection would start looking better and better.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah you didn't hear about his drug fueled murder and robbery spree?

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

True - they choose their views, but only to some extent, and certainly after some point in life. Until then, in many cases they're subject to domestic brainwashing.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Oh...my...g.....flyingspaghettimonster!

[jennem.livejournal.com]

I wonder how I would feel about the matter if the religious teachings I have encountered didn't match with my philosophical notions-- Is it always the case that one must shape the other?

I imagine it's similar to how thy deal with other conflicting religious and philosophical viewpoints (birth control, women's rights, gay marriage, ect.). Primarily, I think a lot of young people have dealt with this by becoming less "religious," but still maintaining their "spirituality."

[mcpreacher.livejournal.com]

so how do you suppose a for-profit prison industry would a)function, and b)refrain from being an indelible stain on human decency compared to the primarily rehabilitative and functional systems in several socialist countries, all of which have a recidivism rate of effectively zero?