"Actual Violence"
11/7/14 20:56![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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talkpoliticsSome of you might remember something I posted four years ago about right wing thug Mike Vanderboegh and his blog call for loyal patriots to smash the windows of Democratic Party Offices. The result -- surprise surprise! -- was the smashing of windows in several Democratic Party Offices. Mr. Vanderboegh opined that he wasn't promoting "actual violence." “How ambiguous is it if I say break windows? Am I saying kill people, absolutely not,” he said.
As I pointed out, the comments section on his blog didn't exactly jibe with his insistence that, oh mercy no, he wasn't talking about KILLING people. They included:
“Today it was bricks, tomorrow it will be ???? The fuse has been lit.”
“We need to track these highly respectable representatives (cough) down to their residences. Where we can then present them a Hallmark card (cough) kindly requesting they consider the Contitution when they vote.. Rocks and bricks are optional but torchs, pitch forks, tar and feathers are encouraged!!”
“As we know, our society has its roots in broken windows - not to mention tar-and-feathers (always horrible, often fatal) and bullets!”
“I wonder if the brain dead socialist in Washington would get the idea if it happened a lot more often. Would a wrist rocket and some ball bearings help get the idea across?”
“I bought a pistol belt and load bearing harness at the Army/Navy surplus store today. Haven't worn one since 1981. Fits real nice.”
“Good thing 223 ammo is still cheep and available. just bought another 1000 rds for 'target' pratice. these clowns are the best gun and ammo salesman in the world.”
“4" PVC Pipe End Cap Portable Compressed Air Tank Hose Pipe Fittings Valve Expanding Foam for Sabot Brick Paint, Scope, Laser Rangefinder, and compensator optional. Use of above parts left to the imagination of the reader.”
“They're all whining about bricks...... Just wait until it turns to bullets.”
I was assured by Sandwich warrior that what ol' Mike REALLY meant was not "do what we say, or we'll kill you," but "leave us alone or we'll kill you." "Leave us alone," meaning, "don't vote for or pass any legislation we dislike."
The old dear is in the news again, and that bit about "absolutely not" advocating killing people...? Well, let's just say Mr. Mike has recently confirmed pretty much what a lot of us already know about what "Open Carry" is really all about. While making a speech at an Open Carry Rally he made the following comments:
...“We like to think that all our fellow Americans, even those who plainly state that they are committed to stealing our liberty and our property and attempting to control our very lives, are merely suffering from differences of opinion that can be overcome by the right mix of persuasion or electoral politics,” Vanderboegh said.
“Yet how many of us have tried such methods with every fiber of our being and fallen short?” he continued. “Not because we were wrong, but because those of the other side were impervious to such arguments, to such tactics, for they believe completely in their right to their appetites for our liberty, our property, and our lives with all the religious fervor of a pagan worship of naked power wrapped in a catechism of lies."
These "fellow Americans" who have been unaccountably unconvinced by his earlier "arguments" of hurling bricks through windows, are therefore, he told the crowd, “domestic enemies of the Constitution,” and as such we need to told:
"that failing all other appeals to peaceful means, that the founders’ solution to such tyranny is still available, still potent, and still waiting, for when democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizenry still gets to vote.”
i.e. "be CONVINCED by our arguments, dammit, or we'll shoot you."
I wonder what rationalizations I'll hear from certain quarters if one day one of these maniacs opens fire with his "bullets/votes" on a Democratic Politician -- or just a Democratic voter.
As I pointed out, the comments section on his blog didn't exactly jibe with his insistence that, oh mercy no, he wasn't talking about KILLING people. They included:
“Today it was bricks, tomorrow it will be ???? The fuse has been lit.”
“We need to track these highly respectable representatives (cough) down to their residences. Where we can then present them a Hallmark card (cough) kindly requesting they consider the Contitution when they vote.. Rocks and bricks are optional but torchs, pitch forks, tar and feathers are encouraged!!”
“As we know, our society has its roots in broken windows - not to mention tar-and-feathers (always horrible, often fatal) and bullets!”
“I wonder if the brain dead socialist in Washington would get the idea if it happened a lot more often. Would a wrist rocket and some ball bearings help get the idea across?”
“I bought a pistol belt and load bearing harness at the Army/Navy surplus store today. Haven't worn one since 1981. Fits real nice.”
“Good thing 223 ammo is still cheep and available. just bought another 1000 rds for 'target' pratice. these clowns are the best gun and ammo salesman in the world.”
“4" PVC Pipe End Cap Portable Compressed Air Tank Hose Pipe Fittings Valve Expanding Foam for Sabot Brick Paint, Scope, Laser Rangefinder, and compensator optional. Use of above parts left to the imagination of the reader.”
“They're all whining about bricks...... Just wait until it turns to bullets.”
I was assured by Sandwich warrior that what ol' Mike REALLY meant was not "do what we say, or we'll kill you," but "leave us alone or we'll kill you." "Leave us alone," meaning, "don't vote for or pass any legislation we dislike."
The old dear is in the news again, and that bit about "absolutely not" advocating killing people...? Well, let's just say Mr. Mike has recently confirmed pretty much what a lot of us already know about what "Open Carry" is really all about. While making a speech at an Open Carry Rally he made the following comments:
...“We like to think that all our fellow Americans, even those who plainly state that they are committed to stealing our liberty and our property and attempting to control our very lives, are merely suffering from differences of opinion that can be overcome by the right mix of persuasion or electoral politics,” Vanderboegh said.
“Yet how many of us have tried such methods with every fiber of our being and fallen short?” he continued. “Not because we were wrong, but because those of the other side were impervious to such arguments, to such tactics, for they believe completely in their right to their appetites for our liberty, our property, and our lives with all the religious fervor of a pagan worship of naked power wrapped in a catechism of lies."
These "fellow Americans" who have been unaccountably unconvinced by his earlier "arguments" of hurling bricks through windows, are therefore, he told the crowd, “domestic enemies of the Constitution,” and as such we need to told:
"that failing all other appeals to peaceful means, that the founders’ solution to such tyranny is still available, still potent, and still waiting, for when democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizenry still gets to vote.”
i.e. "be CONVINCED by our arguments, dammit, or we'll shoot you."
I wonder what rationalizations I'll hear from certain quarters if one day one of these maniacs opens fire with his "bullets/votes" on a Democratic Politician -- or just a Democratic voter.
(no subject)
Date: 12/7/14 18:39 (UTC)I actually agree with this; altho as I read it the first thing that popped into my mind was "No Justice No Peace" (Maxine Walters) at the outset of the King Riots.
(no subject)
Date: 12/7/14 18:49 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 12/7/14 19:18 (UTC)I would submit that a great deal more actual violence comes from leftest oration than right wing whacko blogs.
If we go back far enough I will agree that it used to be it was right wing oration that resulted in more violence; but that has changed in the past 50 years..
(no subject)
Date: 12/7/14 19:42 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 12/7/14 22:07 (UTC)Liberals call for burning Hobby Lobby after Supreme Court decision (http://www.examiner.com/article/liberals-call-for-burning-hobby-lobby-after-supreme-court-decision)
‘Comedian’ Laura Levites to pro-life teen Bethany Bowra: ‘You should be murdered’ (http://twitchy.com/2014/03/26/comedian-laura-levites-to-pro-life-teen-bethany-bowra-you-should-be-murdered/)
Post-Newtown witch hunt: NRA president and members bombarded with death threats (http://twitchy.com/2012/12/16/post-newtown-witch-hunt-nra-president-and-members-bombarded-with-death-threats/)
Assemblyman in jail for threatening fellow lawmaker (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2013/jan/20/assemblyman-jail-accused-threatening-fellow-lawmak/)
‘I want to murder Ann Romney’; Left hurls misogynist hate, death threats at multiple GOP women (http://twitchy.com/2012/08/29/war-on-women-i-want-to-murder-ann-romney-left-hurls-misogynist-hate-death-threats-at-multiple-gop-women/) #WARONWOMEN
Democrats threaten Walker assinaintion after recall loss (http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/06/democrats-threaten-walker-assassination.php)
I could fill entire pages (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2653895/posts) with examples of Leftist "hate-speech".
(no subject)
Date: 13/7/14 00:20 (UTC)What you DON'T have are masses of liberals buying up guns, walking around waving them in public, and advocating violent insurrection if an election doesn't go they way they want it to. Which is what your ol' bud is doing here.
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Date: 13/7/14 01:52 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 13/7/14 03:01 (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 15/7/14 21:03 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 17/7/14 16:02 (UTC)Right?
Present day liberals include people who have put their physical well-being on the line helping women get into abortion clinics. Other more recent liberals whom you've reviled knowingly went into danger to register black southerners for the vote and fight integration in the Jim Crow south. Some paid with their lives.
What acts of similar courage have you performed recently?
(no subject)
Date: 13/7/14 00:21 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 13/7/14 01:52 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 13/7/14 15:33 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 13/7/14 21:48 (UTC)Not as violent as killing, but still crimes.
(no subject)
Date: 13/7/14 07:17 (UTC)Twitter! Youtube comments are also good citations. Read em. You can form opinions on libruls, or the wide brush du jour from the worst youtube comments you can find. Beats thinking.
(no subject)
Date: 14/7/14 03:53 (UTC)Actually my reply (but I got distracted by grand-kids for an enjoyable weekend instead of playing...I know, strange priorities right) was going to start with the 68 democratic convention, next to the king riots (previously mentioned) the big deal in Seattle...now that was brick throwing!
and now I've forgotten what I was going to end with; but sw's were more recent, and mine dwelt on oration, which was what this sub thread between paft and me started as :D
(no subject)
Date: 14/7/14 03:57 (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 14/7/14 10:31 (UTC)Isn't that exactly what Paft is doing in the OP?
Glass houses and stones.
(no subject)
Date: 12/7/14 22:27 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 13/7/14 01:20 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 13/7/14 02:11 (UTC)Would you prefer that we take all those idiot boomers who advocate "Marxism" and "class warfare" seriously? If we are going to crack down on violent and fringe ideologies, lets do a proper job of it.
(no subject)
Date: 13/7/14 04:01 (UTC)On May 20, 2010, two West Memphis, Arkansas, police officers were killed and two Crittenden County sheriff’s officers wounded in two linked shootouts involving an anti-government sovereign citizen with ties to Ohio and Florida.
Suspects in Lousiana Cop Killings Linked to Sovereign Citizens Movement (http://abcnews.go.com/US/alleged-louisiana-cop-shooters-linked-sovereign-citizen-movement/story?id=17038353)
Jerad and Amanda Miller reportedly shot two police officers, a third person, and then themselves. (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/10/las-vegas-shooting-highlights-how-right-wing-violence-has-changed-since-the-90s/)
Brockton, Massachusetts, January 21, 2009: Keith Luke, an unaffiliated white supremacist, kills two Cape Verdean immigrants and rapes and shoots a third. After a brief chase by law enforcement, Luke admitted to police that he planned to kill as many Jews as possible at a local synagogue and then kill himself.
Hardy, Arkansas, January 2011: Five white supremacists associated with Blood & Honour and the racist prison gang Aryan Circle firebomb the residence of an interracial couple. Jason Barnwell was sentenced to 20 years; Gary Dodson to 15 years; Wendy Treybig, Dustin Hammond, and Jake Murphy pleaded guilty, each receiving sentences between 21 and 54 months.
White supremacist ID'd as gunman in deadly shootings at Jewish centers (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/14/1-reportedly-dead-1-injured-in-shootings-at-jewish-centers/)
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Source: Americans Are More Likely to Be Killed by Right-Wing Terrorists Than Muslims (http://www.alternet.org/media/americans-are-more-likely-be-killed-right-wing-terrorists-muslims-medias-afraid-say-it)
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Date: 13/7/14 05:05 (UTC)Ten years you say? Okey-dokey. I'll give you a break and not start the count until 2004, which leads out the already-cited Tim McVeigh and the uptick in militia violence during the '90s.
April 2004: Neo Nazi Sean Gillespie firebombs Temple B'nai Israel in Oklahoma city.
May 2004: Wade and Christopher Lay, anti-government extremists,kill secruity guard Kenneth Anderson while trying to rob a Tulsa bank.
July 2008: Jim David Adkisson kills two people, wounds 7 shooting up a Unitarian Church in Knoxville TN
January 2009: On the day President Obama is inaugurated, Keith Luke shots three black immigrants, kill two of them in a racist shooting spree.
April 2009: White Supremacist Richard Poplawski guns down three Pittsburgh police officers.
May 2009: Scott Roeder guns down Dr. George Tiller
June 2009: Longtime Nazi James von Brunn shoots to death security gard Stephen Jones at the US Holocaust Memorial Museum.
June 2009: Shawna Forde, executive director of Minutement American Defense is charged with two counts of first degree murder for the slaying of a Latino Man and his little girl.
June 2009: White supremacists Dennis and Daniel Mahon are indicted in connection to a mailbomb sent to a diversity office in Scottsdale Arizona that injured three people.
May 2010: Sandlin Matthew Smith detoniate a pipe bomb at a reare entrance to a Florida mosque while workers are still inside.
May 2010: "Sovereign citizens" Jerry Kane and his 16-year-old son murder two police officers in Akansas.
September 2010: An antigovernment extremist opens fire on an oil company worker andtwo sherrif's deputies, wounding all three.
January 2011: A sophisticated and improvised explosive device is found in a backpack alone the Spokane Washington route for the MLK Jr. Day parade.
October 2011: White supremacists David Pederson and Holly Ann Grigsby are arrested in California after a murder spree in three states which left four dead.
(Continued...)
(no subject)
Date: 13/7/14 05:12 (UTC)December 2011: Four Army soldiers at Fort Stewart, GA, members of the terror group Forever Enduring, Always Ready, are arrested for the murder of a former soldier and member and his girlfriend.
August 2012: Wade Michael Page opens fire with a handgun at a Sikh temple, killing six and critically wounding three.
August 2012: SEven people with ties to the "soveriegn citizen" movement are accused of ambusing and murdering two Louisiana sheriff's deputies.
September 2012: Three people are killed after a gunman opens fire at a Jewish Community Center and a Jewish retirement community in Kansas. Frazier Glenn Miller, the founder and former lader of the Carolina Knights of the Ku Klux Clan and the White Patriot Party, is arrested.
June 2014: Jerad Miller and his wife gun down to police officers having lunch in a pizza parlor, leaving a swastika and a Gadsen Flag on their bodies.
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Date: 14/7/14 03:55 (UTC)