"Actual Violence"
11/7/14 20:56![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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talkpoliticsSome of you might remember something I posted four years ago about right wing thug Mike Vanderboegh and his blog call for loyal patriots to smash the windows of Democratic Party Offices. The result -- surprise surprise! -- was the smashing of windows in several Democratic Party Offices. Mr. Vanderboegh opined that he wasn't promoting "actual violence." “How ambiguous is it if I say break windows? Am I saying kill people, absolutely not,” he said.
As I pointed out, the comments section on his blog didn't exactly jibe with his insistence that, oh mercy no, he wasn't talking about KILLING people. They included:
“Today it was bricks, tomorrow it will be ???? The fuse has been lit.”
“We need to track these highly respectable representatives (cough) down to their residences. Where we can then present them a Hallmark card (cough) kindly requesting they consider the Contitution when they vote.. Rocks and bricks are optional but torchs, pitch forks, tar and feathers are encouraged!!”
“As we know, our society has its roots in broken windows - not to mention tar-and-feathers (always horrible, often fatal) and bullets!”
“I wonder if the brain dead socialist in Washington would get the idea if it happened a lot more often. Would a wrist rocket and some ball bearings help get the idea across?”
“I bought a pistol belt and load bearing harness at the Army/Navy surplus store today. Haven't worn one since 1981. Fits real nice.”
“Good thing 223 ammo is still cheep and available. just bought another 1000 rds for 'target' pratice. these clowns are the best gun and ammo salesman in the world.”
“4" PVC Pipe End Cap Portable Compressed Air Tank Hose Pipe Fittings Valve Expanding Foam for Sabot Brick Paint, Scope, Laser Rangefinder, and compensator optional. Use of above parts left to the imagination of the reader.”
“They're all whining about bricks...... Just wait until it turns to bullets.”
I was assured by Sandwich warrior that what ol' Mike REALLY meant was not "do what we say, or we'll kill you," but "leave us alone or we'll kill you." "Leave us alone," meaning, "don't vote for or pass any legislation we dislike."
The old dear is in the news again, and that bit about "absolutely not" advocating killing people...? Well, let's just say Mr. Mike has recently confirmed pretty much what a lot of us already know about what "Open Carry" is really all about. While making a speech at an Open Carry Rally he made the following comments:
...“We like to think that all our fellow Americans, even those who plainly state that they are committed to stealing our liberty and our property and attempting to control our very lives, are merely suffering from differences of opinion that can be overcome by the right mix of persuasion or electoral politics,” Vanderboegh said.
“Yet how many of us have tried such methods with every fiber of our being and fallen short?” he continued. “Not because we were wrong, but because those of the other side were impervious to such arguments, to such tactics, for they believe completely in their right to their appetites for our liberty, our property, and our lives with all the religious fervor of a pagan worship of naked power wrapped in a catechism of lies."
These "fellow Americans" who have been unaccountably unconvinced by his earlier "arguments" of hurling bricks through windows, are therefore, he told the crowd, “domestic enemies of the Constitution,” and as such we need to told:
"that failing all other appeals to peaceful means, that the founders’ solution to such tyranny is still available, still potent, and still waiting, for when democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizenry still gets to vote.”
i.e. "be CONVINCED by our arguments, dammit, or we'll shoot you."
I wonder what rationalizations I'll hear from certain quarters if one day one of these maniacs opens fire with his "bullets/votes" on a Democratic Politician -- or just a Democratic voter.
As I pointed out, the comments section on his blog didn't exactly jibe with his insistence that, oh mercy no, he wasn't talking about KILLING people. They included:
“Today it was bricks, tomorrow it will be ???? The fuse has been lit.”
“We need to track these highly respectable representatives (cough) down to their residences. Where we can then present them a Hallmark card (cough) kindly requesting they consider the Contitution when they vote.. Rocks and bricks are optional but torchs, pitch forks, tar and feathers are encouraged!!”
“As we know, our society has its roots in broken windows - not to mention tar-and-feathers (always horrible, often fatal) and bullets!”
“I wonder if the brain dead socialist in Washington would get the idea if it happened a lot more often. Would a wrist rocket and some ball bearings help get the idea across?”
“I bought a pistol belt and load bearing harness at the Army/Navy surplus store today. Haven't worn one since 1981. Fits real nice.”
“Good thing 223 ammo is still cheep and available. just bought another 1000 rds for 'target' pratice. these clowns are the best gun and ammo salesman in the world.”
“4" PVC Pipe End Cap Portable Compressed Air Tank Hose Pipe Fittings Valve Expanding Foam for Sabot Brick Paint, Scope, Laser Rangefinder, and compensator optional. Use of above parts left to the imagination of the reader.”
“They're all whining about bricks...... Just wait until it turns to bullets.”
I was assured by Sandwich warrior that what ol' Mike REALLY meant was not "do what we say, or we'll kill you," but "leave us alone or we'll kill you." "Leave us alone," meaning, "don't vote for or pass any legislation we dislike."
The old dear is in the news again, and that bit about "absolutely not" advocating killing people...? Well, let's just say Mr. Mike has recently confirmed pretty much what a lot of us already know about what "Open Carry" is really all about. While making a speech at an Open Carry Rally he made the following comments:
...“We like to think that all our fellow Americans, even those who plainly state that they are committed to stealing our liberty and our property and attempting to control our very lives, are merely suffering from differences of opinion that can be overcome by the right mix of persuasion or electoral politics,” Vanderboegh said.
“Yet how many of us have tried such methods with every fiber of our being and fallen short?” he continued. “Not because we were wrong, but because those of the other side were impervious to such arguments, to such tactics, for they believe completely in their right to their appetites for our liberty, our property, and our lives with all the religious fervor of a pagan worship of naked power wrapped in a catechism of lies."
These "fellow Americans" who have been unaccountably unconvinced by his earlier "arguments" of hurling bricks through windows, are therefore, he told the crowd, “domestic enemies of the Constitution,” and as such we need to told:
"that failing all other appeals to peaceful means, that the founders’ solution to such tyranny is still available, still potent, and still waiting, for when democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizenry still gets to vote.”
i.e. "be CONVINCED by our arguments, dammit, or we'll shoot you."
I wonder what rationalizations I'll hear from certain quarters if one day one of these maniacs opens fire with his "bullets/votes" on a Democratic Politician -- or just a Democratic voter.
(no subject)
Date: 14/7/14 20:49 (UTC)The "status quo" you mentioned is common usage, which is the very basis of language and how it works. Yes, yes, I know, you'd RATHER we called racism "culturalism" and Nazism "liberalism," but that's quite simply not the current terminology, and it's dishonest to approach debate as if it were.
(no subject)
Date: 15/7/14 00:51 (UTC)Again isn't that a case of calling kettle black?
You copy-paste some moveon.org or dailykos propaganda screed about how evil the right-wing is and expecti to be accepted as the ur-definintion despite the fact that Cambridge, Miriam-Webster and something like 60% of the population disagree with your premise.
As for the rest...
Point 1:
Fascism and National Socialism are both revolutionary populist movements that trace their origins back to the "Fin d' Ciel" and the backlash against materialism and imperialism. Ideologically Vladimir Lenin, Benito Mussolini, and Woodrow Wilson all have far more in common with each-other than not. Modern emphasis on identity politics is essentially nothing more than fascism-lite.
Point 2:
Racism discrimination based on Race and Culturalism is discrimination based percieved cultural traits. and while there is admittedly some overlap they are not the same thing.
You and "your buddies" are the ones who think that all white people are guilty until proven otherwise. You and "your buddies" are the ones who think minorities are not capable of advancing their own cause without assistance from the government. Who simply don't understand how a "right-winger" could possibly admire the writings of Booker T Washington and Thomas Sowell, or vote for Thomas Scott or Mia Love un-ironically.
The left tries so very hard to discredit people like Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice as "race traitors" and "house niggers" specifically because they are people of color who have deviated from the script that white democrats would prefer they follow.
In the end Paft you and "your buddies" are far more racist than I am.
(no subject)
Date: 15/7/14 20:59 (UTC)Bolshevism was professionalized terrorism, Fascism and Nazism were amateurish groups of Al Capone types. To put it in terms that you might understand, Bolshevism is Hezbollah, Fascism is Hamas. Very different and very different in terms of their efficiency.
And you're sincerely claiming the man behind the first Red Scare is equivalent to the author of the First Terror in the Soviet Union and who had peasants gassed in Tambov Province while accusing her of playing fast and loose with words. This is two cast-iron pots claiming one is grey.
(no subject)
Date: 17/7/14 16:18 (UTC)So what?
sw: Racism discrimination based on Race and Culturalism is discrimination based percieved cultural traits. and while there is admittedly some overlap they are not the same thing.
When the claim is that black people have an inferior culture and therefore should be treated differently, yes, it is racism. "Race" remains the operative rationale for discrimination.
sw: You and "your buddies" are the ones who think that all white people are guilty until proven otherwise. You and "your buddies" are the ones who think minorities are not capable of advancing their own cause without assistance from the government. Who simply don't understand how a "right-winger" could possibly admire the writings of Booker T Washington and Thomas Sowell, or vote for Thomas Scott or Mia Love un-ironically.
And again we see your usual tactic of ascribing attitudes and beliefs to other people. No, I don't believe "all white people are guilty until proven otherwise." And no, it's not a matter of believing that "minorities are not capable of advancing their own cause without assistance from the government. It's a matter of believing that the government needs to protect the rights of everyone equally, and that applies to racial minorities who otherwise would face widespread discrimination -- as the history of the Jim Crow south indicates. And liberals who are familiar with the writings of Booker T. Washington, Thomas Sowell, have no trouble understanding why right -wingers would admire them. Nor would most of us have trouble believing right wingers would support the the candidacy of Mia Love, or, (if he's anything like her) Thomas Scott.
(no subject)
Date: 17/7/14 19:10 (UTC)So your attempts to paint fascism as a strictly "right wing" ideology make about as much sense as calling Ayn Rand a "hippy".
When the claim is that black people have an inferior culture and therefore should be treated differently
And where was this claim coming from? Oh yes, the Left when they claim that things like referring to "single parents" are "dog whistles" for black.
And again we see your usual tactic of ascribing attitudes and beliefs to other people.
Pot, Kettle Paft.
(no subject)
Date: 17/7/14 23:41 (UTC)Black Americans faced years and years of second-class citizenship and poverty, not because they were incapable of helping themselves, but because whites were allowed to discriminate, harass, and in some areas, to kill black Americans with impunity. So no, it's not that liberals and leftists imagine black people can't help themselves. It's that liberals and leftists -- and most black Americans -- are familiar with recent history, and with current events (like the Trayvon Martin killing.)