Ukraine - civil war

[ivankon.livejournal.com]

Video from Mariupol (Eastern Ukraine)
WARNING: Very Bloody! Remove children away before view!

Screams: "Fascists! Get out of here! Heroes! (with contempt)"

Situation. Soldiers from Western Ukraine went to Eastern Ukraine town with "anti-terrorist operation", "to free people". You can see how "joyful" people meets them. Soldiers killed drunken man lifted his arm with camp-chair towards them, wounded 2 or 3 unarmed people and possible cause heart attack of old-timer. Oh, such terrorists... or secret agents of Putin, year. After next wounded man has fallen crowd shouts and other man (see 2:11) shooting from behind of crowd towards recessive soldiers. This single person who may be in theory terrorist or at least delinquent was just ignored by both soldiers and crowd (because pneumatic gun?).

So... you should not trust to me, just see (do not forget remove children and may be wives too!)

Those soldiers as says were hired by oligarch Ihor Kolomoyskyi from the extreme nationalistic part of activists of Maidan (therefore crowd screaming "Fascists"). I.e. this is not regular army but marginals recently hired to army. Usual regular army very reluctantly participates in such operations. Oligarch Ihor Kolomoyskyi was set appointed to governor seat without any elections after coup d'etat in Kiev. He has reputation of corrupt businessman therefore he is not popular among natives.

Eastern Ukrainians has significantly different history from Western and many years live in one country with distrust to each other. On several last elections of Presidents were either pro-Eastern or pro-Western and other side stayed dissatisfied and felt cheated.

Comments

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

History really does get in the way of people relating and finding out what common concerns they have in present time, doesn't it?

I understand - we have a region called The South where some people still harbor anger over a failed insurrection.

[ivankon.livejournal.com]

I do not understand what South and what failed insurrection?

History is in brains and memory of people and affects on estimations of present events and as result affects on acts.

Common concerns of them is massive corruption (like in Russia). But after coup d'etat in Kiev some corrupt clans (eastern-Ukrainian-oriented, Russia-friendly or neutral) just replaced by other corrupt clans (western-Ukrainian-oriented, USA/EU-friendly). Is this solution of сommon concerns? No, it is just game of external forces.

[moonshaz.livejournal.com]

I think fizzyland is talking about our southern states here in the US and their failed insurrection, otherwise known as our Civil War!

(frozen) (no subject)

[dziga123.livejournal.com]

Got your 85 rubles for this post?
No, there is no such thing as "Eastern" and "Western" Ukraine. Ukraine is one independent country, attacked by Russian Special Forces. Even Herr Putin admitted this.
Shut your cheap propaganda up youknowwhere.

"Another major newspaper believes that the Russian government is paying internet users to spam the comments section under their articles with aggressive, provocative pro-Russian propaganda. UK’s The Guardian newspaper moderators believe this is an orchestrated campaign."

http://landandseajournal.com/russia-paying-trolls-to-comment-on-news-websites-another-newspaper-says/

[alexalias.livejournal.com]

Well, looks like the BBC and other Western media got their 85 rubles as well.


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27324637

[dziga123.livejournal.com]

This is not about geography.
Eastern and Western United States is one country. South of France is France.
Ukrainian government forces fight Russian Special Forces.
Don't pretend that you don't know what is this about.

(frozen) (no subject)

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

> Got your 85 rubles for this post?

Ad hominem.

> Shut your cheap propaganda up youknowwhere.

Personally directed expletive.

"Enough said", indeed.



Bye for 3 days.

[dziga123.livejournal.com]

"Putin Denies Sending Russian Troops to Crimea"

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20140304/188087074/Putin-Denies-Sending-Russian-Troops-to-Crimea.html


"Putin admits Russian forces were deployed to Crimea"

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/04/17/russia-putin-crimea-idUKL6N0N921H20140417

Enough said!

(http://imgur.com/0j9ur6a)

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Stop spamming. You already posted this twice.

[cypukambl.livejournal.com]

Hey, guys! Has everybody forgotten about Crimea? They`re still occupied by Russia, aren`t they? The Crimean "Referendum" was a fake and people are still suffering under polished boots of Spetznaz. There was a parade yesterday in Sevestopol, where a great deal of occupants marched along the streets, floated upon the sea and flew through the sky. I`d like you to watch this long video, but, please, pay no attention to military toys. Watch the faces in the crowd. Occupied people of Crimea.

And on photos too:


Ukrainian troops guard City Administration building in Mariupol. People of Mariupol thank them for their service. Now please watch the soldiers` faces:

Of course, everything above is Putin`s propaganda.
BTW, if you have any pictures or videos, showing people of Slaviansk, Kramatorsk or Mariupol, greeting Ukrainian troops with flowers and cheers for their liberation from pro-Russian terrorists, please also show them. I`m in dispair. I`ve found none.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

And these people are crying with happiness at Hitler's arrival in Czechoslovakia.

[cypukambl.livejournal.com]

Show me an optimistic video where people of Mariupol or Slaviansk greet Ukrainian troops. One, at least. Videos with shouts of " Go back! We don`t want you here!", "Bastards! Fascists!", "Fuck you!" will not be counted as such. They are abundant.

[ivankon.livejournal.com]

Crimea and current Civil War both are result of recent events but now things are running in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine more or less independently.

One side say: Events in Crimea were not bloody because Russian Army help to local insurgents and would be bloody if they did not intervene.

Other side say: No blood would have been in Crimea, but the intervention give hope to insurgents in Eastern Ukraine and provoked blood there.

You can believe to first or second but I think both these suppositions are speculations which cannot be proved firmly.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

You beat me to it (http://news.antiwar.com/2014/05/09/ukraine-troops-kill-20-in-mariupol-blow-up-police-station/).

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

When Turchynov starts appointing oligarchs with a "good" reputation across the underground world to governor positions (reference: the new Odessa governor), his credibiility naturally starts losing ground pretty fast, doesn't it.

The footage I saw from the shooting against civilians was horrific. Even Hitler didn't afford to shoot at people meeting his troops on the streets.

[ivankon.livejournal.com]

> When Turchynov starts appointing oligarchs with a "good" reputation across the underground world to governor positions (reference: the new Odessa governor), his credibiility naturally starts losing ground pretty fast, doesn't it.

It ruined the hopes of winning over corruption and situation began to look like already habitual: eastern president was elected -> western Ukrainians has problems (and begin riots), western president was elected -> eastern Ukrainians has problems (and begin riots). The last neutral (but weak) president was Leonid Kuchma and since there there was no compromise candidates. My friends from Ukraine says like "Here is not good choice, all candidates are bandits, thieves or idiots so we are forced to elect at least "our" bandit".

[luzribeiro.livejournal.com]

Yet again (http://talk-politics.livejournal.com/1857652.html), where's the official outrage? Any notes of protest from Western governments? Did Obama, Cameron, Hollande and Merkel make any statements about the events in Mariupol (and Odessa)? Any calls to the Ukrainian government to hold those responsible accountable for the bloodshed?

Or maybe Putin edited this footage as well?

[ivankon.livejournal.com]

Both sides blames each others.

Kiev self-styled government says: there were pro-Russian insurgents who fires to enraged soccer fanatics and fanatics fired insurgents as answer.

Eastern insurgents says: there were provokers with agreement with police who enraged soccer fanatics and fanatics fired insurgents instead provokers.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

See what happened the other day. A colleague of mine wrote a short comment under a CNN article about the events in Ukraine, asking "When will the likes of CNN finally show a lack of bias and report the actual events on the ground", adding a link to the footage that we're dicussing here.

Within a few minutes, his comment was removed by the CNN moderators.

[mikeyxw.livejournal.com]

I expect it's too soon for the US to express concern about Mariupol, Obama isn't the kind to rush such things, but there some here (https://news.yahoo.com/us-condemns-unacceptable-odessa-violence-012355850.html) about Odessa.

"The violence and mayhem that led to so many senseless deaths and injuries is unacceptable."
and
"We call on all sides to work together to restore calm and law and order, and we call on the Ukrainian authorities to launch a full investigation and to bring all those responsible to justice,"

This follows up an announcement that kidnapping young girls who are going to school is bad. It seems that future tragedies will also be met with this same combination of bystanding and after-the-fact official outrage. Putin will need to prepare himself for hearing harsh words such as these if he nibbles off any more chunks of Ukraine. Perhaps it's time for the US to seize the initiative and remove Putin from Obama's Christmas card list as well.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Very horrific. I am against gunning down unarmed people. The question here is what to be for....

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Partitioning Ukraine and dragging whichever part of it is possible to be dragged out of the Russian sphere of influence - that's something We Could Stand For(TM).

The collateral damage side effects of that process be damned.

[moonshaz.livejournal.com]

ivankon: So... you should not trust to me, just see (do not forget remove children and may be wives too!)

Wives too? So single women don't have to avert their eyes, then? I guess we must somehow become more fragile once we are wives, lol!

Yeah, THAT isn't offensive and sexist at all. #heavy sarcasm

[luzribeiro.livejournal.com]

But why do you disregard people's wives' feelings? Are you that prejudiced against wives? What have wives done to you?

Why do you want the institution of #marriage destroyed?!?11!1

[ivankon.livejournal.com]

I think here people are not losers and every faithful dzhigit have at least 2 wives!