Even more Wankery that we find acceptable...

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

While I generally disagree with his politics I think Mr. Savage raises an excellent point.

Now consider this...

Bill Maher and NYT's David Carr the "Middle Places" and "Low-Sloping Foreheads".

I apologise for linking as I seem to be having trouble embedding the video.

Now I would assume that both men in the second video consider themselves to be reasonably intelligent and enlightened men. If accused of being racist or bigoted I would imagine that they would be properly offended.

Which is why I'm going to ask an uncomfortable question, why is it ok to disparage one socio-political/ethnic class as stupid, dangerous, useless, ect... but not another. Would his comments have been more or less offensive had he been talking about "Fags" "Twats" "Spics" "Wops" "Chinks" or *Gasp* "N*ggers"?

Discuss.

Comments

[soliloquy76.livejournal.com]

They're certainly less offensive because it's a COMEDY SHOW.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

One with a very obvious political focus and message.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Never mind ya know, these types of shows that actually play up to their audiences

Off-topic

[foreverbeach.livejournal.com]

Dan Savage should get the Nobel Peace Prize for his It Gets Better campaign.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

History.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

In the abstract this is true, context does matter but that raises it's own questions.

For instance how much do you let slide before calling the books even? Will redneck jokes always be acceptable and racist jokes always off-limits?

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

That would explain a lot.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

Hrm. Very astute observation.

Do you have anything to say on what "fair" is, either your own opinion or what you perceive others' is?

[surferelf.livejournal.com]

Actually we would argue that there is no equality without fairness.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

And that makes blanket insults directed towards a specific class of people acceptable?

[telemann.livejournal.com]

I honestly think Carr was drunk or heavily medicated on that show (I mean medicated in the legal sense of the word, not like doing recreational drugs, although that could have been possible too); Carr wasn't talking in a very coherent way, and he really seemed struggle to form complete sentences.

[eracerhead.livejournal.com]

In one case you have a municipality that consistently passes laws considered objectionable or backward by the standards of other municipalities. If the people of said municipality repeatedly elect representatives who pass such laws it is direct evidence that the characterization of the population of said municipality is objectionable or backward.

This is not the same thing as saying, you are from X, therefore you are Y.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

So we can denigrate ethnic groups if they do something stupid en masse?

What's up with blacks in the ghetto? Neanderthals!

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

But in that case shouldn't it be the specific law that comes under attack?

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

So I just actually watched the videos...

I don't see what was being said as something racial, but I'm not USanian, so maybe Kansas is well known for being all white or something and I'm missing it. It seems to me like the joke is about how stupid people from Kansas are, and from what I've seen of Bill Maher, I imagine he's having a swipe at Republicans there more than anything, and I think we have to keep our political beliefs open to all possible criticisms.

I see this as analogous to the "Real America" BS spewed by the Palinbot etc.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

I don't see what was being said as something racial, but I'm not USanian, so maybe Kansas all white or something and I'm missing it.

It is. and can be expanded to the central US in general.

I see this as analogous to the "Real America" BS spewed by the Palinbot etc.

A fair point.

The issue as I see it is that a certain amount of bigotry has become acceptable. Folks like Glenn Beck and Anne Coulter are rightfully ridiculed for refering to leftism as treason or a disease but nobody bats an eyelash when a promenant pundit refers to the entire population of a state as neanderthals.

Maybe I'm just more sensative to it coming from a lower-class white family but it strikes me as being quite hypocritical.

There's an old joke that gets passed around on conservative blogs...

Politician: Why won't these piece of shit, cousin humping, white trash cunts vote for me? Don't those idiots the understand that is in thier best interest to do so?

Redkneck: The answer is in the question asshole.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

No, it's not equivalent. Next.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

Why?

Where is the dividing line?

Nice videos.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

I love the line about it not getting better but you get stronger. It reminds me of the old adage that if it doesn't kill you it will make you stronger.

As for the low sloping foreheads remark: at least the guy recognized that it was a stupid thing to say.

[paedraggaidin.livejournal.com]

Kansas is currently bursting with righteous indignation about the low-sloping foreheads remark, including various demands that Carr apologize/get fired. Which really makes Kansans look even smarter....

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

I don't think a redneck here, in Alberta, means quite the same thing as in USA. Still means a country-fied person, white, etc. but seems to be a lot less emphasis on being racist. A bigot is a bigot.

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

Which is why I'm going to ask an uncomfortable question, why is it ok to but not another. Would his comments have been more or less offensive had he been talking about..

Answer: It is not OK to do such things. In this case, the question is moot. In this case, no one disparage any particular socio-political/ethnic class as stupid, dangerous, useless, ect... someone goofed on a region of the US that moves at a slower tempo than they are used to (Living in Atlanta and living in Ponca City is two different speeds, and that is NOT a disparage it is a fact).

It would most definitely been more offensive to any group mentioned, unless they had a magnificent sense of humor.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

And I would actually agree with you.

But as Mr. Savage points out, we seem to be willing to let a lot of shit slide when it's someone who is ostensibly on our side. Conservative's let Rush Limbaugh practically get away with murder but throw them selves into a tizzy if Bill Maher calls Sarah Palin a "Stupid Cunt". Likewise many liberals seem to tie themselves in knots over the supposed racism of the Tea Party but see nothing wrong with classifying the entire population of the midwest and inbred hicks and neanderthals.

It's Bullshit in either case.

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

Regarding Dan Savage's comments, it's one thing to say "don't give them a platform" but then when you do, that's infringing on someone's right of free speech. I don't like or agree with what the Westboro Baptist Church has to say, but it's their right as citizens of this country to say it.
If you don't like someone's message, you're not required to listen but discounting what they have to say because YOU disagree with it is you trying to force your beliefs onto them and the world at large. Counterpoints make the world go 'round.