Shawna Forde gets death penalty

[kinvore.livejournal.com]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/02/22/arizona.double.killing/?hpt=T2

I don't advocate the death penalty but I shed no tears for this woman. Here's the crux of the story: an anti-immigrant militant attacked a Latino family, killing the father and 9-year-old daughter (as she begged for her life), and shooting the mother who only survived because she pretended to die from the gunshot.

The murderers thought the father was a drug dealer and they wanted his money to finance their budding hate group. I guess that would have been a nifty recruiting tool for extremists, their willingness to kill Mexicans to get things done. Nevermind the fact that the victims were American-born citizens, such details are irrelevant when racial bigotry is concerned.

This is the sort of thing that happens when you fan the flames of hatred, dehumanization is the predecessor to atrocity. I'm surprised this didn't get more attention from the mainstream media, I guess they aren't as liberal as so many seem to think.

Comments

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

The disadvantage of course is that you must ignore those feeling when the state commits an act of murder. When state executes someone who is innocent, who then is guilty of murder?

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

the state would be of course.
And would you like to show the statistics for how often this has ocurred? With the paucity of executions that take place, it's not very frequent. Tookie Williams manage to live a rather productive life for OVER 20 years after he cut short 4 people's lives.

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

If I fire into a forest randomly once a month and hit no one a million times, but then I hit an innocent bystander, I go to jail for a large portion of my life.

If the government executes people a thousands times, but gets two wrong, it's excused because it's not like they're doing it all that often?

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

I am not saying the government is excused, and I'm sure it doesn't get off (think of the law-suits, even granting it doesn't bring the person back)

Seriously? You really think you'd go to jail for a large portion of your life for that? You'd have a really bad lawyer. A guy who worked for me went to jail for "accidently" killing someone in a drunken rage....2 years.

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

Money damages are, IMO, incapable of making proper recompense for the loss of a life. They're just the closest our system will ever get, imperfect as it is.

The fact that you think it's somehow OK to continue running the risk of killing innocents because their bereaved families could get some dough out of it is more than a little disheartening.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry you think I was inferring it justifies it, as you say nothing does. Risk assessment is a fact of life, where people draw the line is both debatable and personal.

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

Well, what unique benefits does the death penalty give us? We know that people don't really respond all that much to the severity of a punishment, but rather to the certainty of *any* punishment, in dissuading crime. So it can't be the deterrent value. Anything else is not justice, it's revenge. So why, if you admit that the death penalty has and does kill innocent people, would you continue to support it? How could you continue to support it?

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Seriously? You really think you'd go to jail for a large portion of your life for that? You'd have a really bad lawyer. A guy who worked for me went to jail for "accidently" killing someone in a drunken rage....2 years.


Zero tolerance, three strikes, and being not white all mean more than two years. I'll go out on a limb and say the dude who killed and only got two years was white.

The state, by definition, gets off. You cannot end the life of the state. Loss upon loss.

Lawsuits? I'm sure there are plenty of killers who would gladly pay a fine.

The race card again!!!

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

Actually he was a ginger, I'm not sure if that's the same thing exactly....snark

(I could tell you all the times my not white b-i-l has gotten off, but it is a digression)

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Its a hard thing to accurately measure (http://www.innocenceproject.org/) especially when forbidden to investigate the cases retro-actively, as Bush did in Texas (http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2010/11/new_evidence_suggests_texas_ex.html).

The number is not zero (http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/The_Innocent_and_the_Death_Penalty.php), however:

Seventeen people have been proven innocent and exonerated by DNA testing in the United States after serving time on death row. They were convicted in 11 states and served a combined 209 years in prison ? including 187 years on death row ? for crimes they didn?t commit.

• Kirk Bloodsworth served eight years in Maryland prisonincluding two years on death rowfor a murder and rape he didn?t commit, before he was exonerated in 1993.


• Rolando Cruz, and his co-defendant Alejandro Hernandez, served more than 10 years on Illinois death row for a murder they didn?t commit before DNA testing proved both men innocent in 1995.


• Verneal Jimerson and Dennis Williams were sentenced to death in the infamous Ford Heights Four case in Illinois for a pair of 1978 murders they didn?t commit. Jimerson was cleared in 1995 after a decade on death row and Williams served more than 17 years on death row before he was freed in 1996.


• Robert Miller spent nine years on Oklahoma?s death row for a murder and rape he didn?t commit before he was cleared by DNA testing in 1998.


• Ron Williamson spent a decade on Oklahoma?s death row for a murder he didn?t commit before DNA testing secured by the Innocence Project proved him innocent in 1999. His co-defendant, Dennis Fritz, was sentenced to life and spent 11 years in prison before DNA cleared him as well.


• Ronald Jones, an Innocence Project client, served a decade on Illinois death row for a murder and rape he didn?t commit before DNA testing proved his innocence and led to his release in 1999.


• Earl Washington, a Virginia man with limited mental capacity, was sentenced to death after he allegedly confessed to committing a 1982 murder he didn?t commit. He served a decade on death row, once coming within nine days of execution before receiving a stay. He would serve a total of 17 years behind bars before DNA testing obtained by the Innocence Project cleared him in 2000.


• Frank Lee Smith died of cancer on Florida?s death row after serving 14 years for a murder and rape he didn?t commit. He was cleared by DNA testing obtained by the Innocence Project 11 months after his death.


• Charles Irvin Fain served more than 17 years on death row in Idaho for a murder and rape he didn?t commit before DNA testing proved his innocence in 2001.


• Ray Krone served a decade in Arizona prisonincluding four years on death rowfor a murder and rape he didn?t commit before DNA testing proved his innocence in 2002.


• Nicholas Yarris served more than 21 years on Pennsylvania?s death row before DNA testing proved his innocence and led to his release in 2003.


• Ryan Matthews served five years on Louisiana?s death row for a murder he didn?t commit before he was exonerated by DNA testing in 2004. His co-defendant, Travis Hayes, was sentenced to life in prison and served eight years before he was cleared in 2007.


• Curtis McCarty served 21 years in Oklahoma prisonincluding nearly 18 years on death rowfor a murder he didn?t commit before DNA tests secured by the Innocence Project led to his exoneration in 2007. He was convicted twice and sentenced to death three times based on forensic misconduct.


• Kennedy Brewer, an Innocence Project client, served 15 years behind barsincluding seven years on death rowfor a murder and sexual assault he didn?t commit before DNA testing from 2001 finally led to his exoneration in 2008.


• Michael Blair served 13 years on death row for a murder he didn?t commit before DNA testing obtained by his lawyers at the Innocence Project proved his innocence and led to his exoneration in 2008.

Thank you.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

Since I had a vague idea of the statistics (just not very good at finding stuff, but I am getting better)
I have considered this in forming my opinion, and I am still in favor or the death penalty.

(at the rate I'm going tonight, I will never get back to your comments from the other day...just so you know I didn't completely ignore them, but this is more immediate)

Re: Thank you.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Thanks, take your time, no worries.

Are you pro-choice, I forget?

Re: Thank you.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

No, but I'm not completely anti-abortion....I get taken to task by both sides, but oh well.....

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Since you bring it up, what do you consider an acceptable rate/percentage?


Why are you centered on Tookie Williams?

Why not Karla Faye Tucker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla_Faye_Tucker)?

After all, all she did was have the nerve to be near her stupid boyfriend when he murdered someone, so obviously she needs to die. Bush laughed at her for pleading for her life.

Cop out

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

Actually what I consider acceptable is irrelevent to anyone but me, but I've never put a figure on it in my mind.

Re: Cop out

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

You've got some thinking to do.

[mrsilence.livejournal.com]

After all, all she did was have the nerve to be near her stupid boyfriend when he murdered someone, so obviously she needs to die.

The wiki doesn't read that way. It reads like she basically tried to finish the victim off. The victim whos chest she was sitting on when they were mortally wounded by her stupid boyfriend.

While I don't think execution is the answer, I don't think thats passes as merely guilty of stupidity - that's a violent attack on someone who is fatally wounded, trying to end them so she didn't have to hear their death gurgle.