Cops and Teachers? THEY Don't Pay Taxes!

[paft.livejournal.com]

Wisconsin State Assemblyman Robin Vos lets us all know what he thinks of those taxpaying Wisconsin citizens who work in the public sector:

The reality is they haven’t had to pay for these things, they’re upset about doing it now, and the taxpayers are the ones who definitely understand this because they get it, they’ve been doing this in the private sector for years, it’s time we had the same thing happen in the public sector…The fact that my Democratic colleagues want to go back to the taxpayer and have them pay higher taxes because someone shouldn’t pay 12% towards their healthcare….We are standing with the taxpayers all across Wisconsin. It’s amazing the outpouring of support that we’ve been getting from the people outside the Capitol Square, the people who are in the reality of the world, not the place that we’re sitting.

Howard Dean does a very good job of refuting Kudlow and Vos’ fiction that the demonstrations are all about the cuts in benefits and not about the elimination of collective bargaining. The capper to this exchange, however, comes near the end of the segment, when a sign appears just over Vos’ shoulder on the right. Not the kind of thing Kudlow could choreograph.

It beautifully highlights the idiocy of Vos' fiction that the demonstrators are, in some fundamental way, less American than other Americans. Does he really think cops and teachers don't pay taxes, or “live in the reality of the world?”

Crossposted from Thoughtcrimes
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Comments

[paft.livejournal.com]

So you'd like him to eliminate pretty much the foundation of worker's rights.

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

Not at all. Workers at private companies should have every right to unionize, strike, bargain collectively, etc. I also happen to think that employers should have every right to fire these workers if they think their demands are unreasonable.

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Sadly, this is like the debate on how House republicans want to wipe out all funding to Planned Parenthood. When asked who else would provide contraception and women's health services, republicans admit they don't know who. But the important part is destroying something they don't like, the rest is someone else's problem.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Why does Planned Parenthood or any private medical practice need federal money?

[devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com]

This.

[debergerac.livejournal.com]

but the public sector is the font of all goodness. why would public sector employees -need- unions?

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Ask the police and get back to us.

[paft.livejournal.com]

Ascribing fictional positions to people like "the public sector is the font of all goodness" and then using it as a platform from which to attack them is so obviously dumb it's embarrassing to read messages like this.

[harry-beast.livejournal.com]

Public service employees are free at any time to seek new employment with an employer whose compensation package recognizes their skills and contributions.

[paft.livejournal.com]

And this means that they shouldn't be allowed to collectively bargain?

You do realize, don't you, that public workers are often in the public sector because they consider their work an avocation rather than just a job?

[paft.livejournal.com]

In other words, you don't believe in the right of workers in either the private or public sector to organize and go on strike. Got it.

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

*Crickets*

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

There's a fairly good standard of what's unreasonable and what isn't already established, so your issue is a strawman.

[kinvore.livejournal.com]

What is this standard?

[farchivist.livejournal.com]

Wait, wait, wait.
Let me get this straight and tell me if I'm going wrong somewhere.
Employees at private companies have every right to unionize and strike and so on.
But employers should have every right to fire these workers if they think their demands are unreasonable.
What prevents me, as an employer, from defining what's 'unreasonable'?

I mean, I could declare 20% pay cuts across the board, except for executives who receive a 40% pay raise (I've seen this done, btw.). The employees decide to union...and I declare ANY demands they make as unreasonable, except "You will obey me like I was Uber God. What I decree is what you obey." And then fire the ringleaders as examples.

In light of that, what would be the practical point of a union? A new social club for all the employees to hang out at? I mean, if you're letting employers define unreasonable, unreasonable is whatever I say it is.

[harry-beast.livejournal.com]

Companies that pay below market wages and make unreasonable demands on employees have difficulty recruiting skilled and experienced employees. They also suffer low workforce productivity, high turnover and above average incidences of lawsuits and complaints to regulatory agencies. This is reflected in decreased customer satisfaction, lower profits, etc.

[paft.livejournal.com]

Companies pay miserable wages and treat their workers badly if they aren't kept in line by unions who have the power of collective bargaining. Without that, the market philosophy of employers is best reflected by a manager for the railroad companies a hundred years go. When asked why the company didn't repair the roof a workers shelter so that they wouldn't lose so many employees to pneumonia during the winter, he replied, "Men are cheaper than shingles."

[farchivist.livejournal.com]

Companies that pay below market wages and make unreasonable demands on employees have difficulty recruiting skilled and experienced employees.

Only if it's an employee's market, which it hasn't been since before I was born. For the past 30 years, if you fire someone you can hire a skilled and experienced employee at half what you are paying the previous guy pretty much instantly.

They also suffer low workforce productivity, high turnover and above average incidences of lawsuits and complaints to regulatory agencies.

This is really not an issue with scripts, proper marketing, and a good legal team.

This is reflected in decreased customer satisfaction, lower profits, etc.


Customer satisfaction is an issue that only applies to small businesses. Corporate dominance on the national or multinat level can mitigate it. Lower profits will not occur so long as proper wageslavery continues.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

Except if you've taken away the right to unionise, the power balance is so distorted as to take away the invisible hand. Free labour markets can only happen with unionised workers.

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

because public sector unions are the foundation of workers rights. OMG were gonna have to go back to 10 hour work days because of scott walker!

[paft.livejournal.com]

If Scott Walker and others like him succeed in eliminating unions, yeah, that's quite possible.

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

lol, okay fearmonger.