Cops and Teachers? THEY Don't Pay Taxes!

[paft.livejournal.com]

Wisconsin State Assemblyman Robin Vos lets us all know what he thinks of those taxpaying Wisconsin citizens who work in the public sector:

The reality is they haven’t had to pay for these things, they’re upset about doing it now, and the taxpayers are the ones who definitely understand this because they get it, they’ve been doing this in the private sector for years, it’s time we had the same thing happen in the public sector…The fact that my Democratic colleagues want to go back to the taxpayer and have them pay higher taxes because someone shouldn’t pay 12% towards their healthcare….We are standing with the taxpayers all across Wisconsin. It’s amazing the outpouring of support that we’ve been getting from the people outside the Capitol Square, the people who are in the reality of the world, not the place that we’re sitting.

Howard Dean does a very good job of refuting Kudlow and Vos’ fiction that the demonstrations are all about the cuts in benefits and not about the elimination of collective bargaining. The capper to this exchange, however, comes near the end of the segment, when a sign appears just over Vos’ shoulder on the right. Not the kind of thing Kudlow could choreograph.

It beautifully highlights the idiocy of Vos' fiction that the demonstrators are, in some fundamental way, less American than other Americans. Does he really think cops and teachers don't pay taxes, or “live in the reality of the world?”

Crossposted from Thoughtcrimes
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Comments

[paft.livejournal.com]

When did I express an aversion to cops?

[paft.livejournal.com]

Had some, thanks. Now excuse me, but I've got to go into the bedroom of my patchouli-scented Haight district flat, sit on my indian print tree-of life bedspread, and strum my guitar.

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

The only reason to support Walker is because he wants to eliminate collective bargaining for public sector unions.

If he would eliminate public sector unions entirely I'd be even happier.

[paft.livejournal.com]

So you'd like him to eliminate pretty much the foundation of worker's rights.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

I love it when you display a sense of humor.

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

Not at all. Workers at private companies should have every right to unionize, strike, bargain collectively, etc. I also happen to think that employers should have every right to fire these workers if they think their demands are unreasonable.

[paft.livejournal.com]

In other words, you don't believe in the right of workers in either the private or public sector to organize and go on strike. Got it.

[anadinboy.livejournal.com]

they dont pay taxes, its the same money going round and round. They are a kind of tax- paying pastiche

[paft.livejournal.com]

Really? Cops, teachers, and other public sector employees don't fill out IRS tax forms? They don't pay sales taxes? And they get paid JUST AS MUCH as private sector employees?

[jerseycajun.livejournal.com]

"If he would eliminate public sector unions entirely I'd be even happier."

I don't buy Paft's "worker's rights" angle as the only rights I acknowledge are the ones shared by virtue of common humanity, not conditions of employment, but one of the rights that does fall into our common humanity is freedom of association.

I understand the aversion to the affect of public sector unions have on politics and policy, but at the same time, how do you do this without simultaneously stomping on freedom of association, because I don't think you can.

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

*Crickets*

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Sadly, this is like the debate on how House republicans want to wipe out all funding to Planned Parenthood. When asked who else would provide contraception and women's health services, republicans admit they don't know who. But the important part is destroying something they don't like, the rest is someone else's problem.

[jerseycajun.livejournal.com]

Give it at least 24 hours, man. Some of us only do this in the 'in-between' moments when we're not overcome with the demands of everyday life.

[paft.livejournal.com]

jc: the only rights I acknowledge are the ones shared by virtue of common humanity, not conditions of employment,

Are you opposed to worker safety, minimum wage, and child labor laws?

[jerseycajun.livejournal.com]

You just blew by the fact that I was defending the existence of unions, and you still can't help yourself but to interrogate me anyway.

My answer to those are going to be necessarily complex, time consuming, and probably off-topic, because short, curt, yes-or-no answers will be easily demagogued.

It would require I lay out my whole reasoning and philosophy on government and society to explain it, and experience has taught me that there will be no time spent today on productive things if I continue to entertain your questions in this thread.

Perhaps on a day when I have less planned, I'll make an OP on some of these things, or perhaps I'll start with the reasoning and lead into those sub-issues, that way we can avoid a lot of the back-and-forth, and I can just refer to my own post for questions and answers.

[paft.livejournal.com]

jc: You just blew by the fact that I was defending the existence of unions

Which, as you just made plain, does not mean you defend the existence of worker safety, minimum wage, and child labor laws.

jc: My answer to those are going to be necessarily complex, time consuming, and probably off-topic, because short, curt, yes-or-no answers will be easily demagogued.

In other words, the answer is probably "no," to at least one of these, but you don't look forward to having to defend such a stance, which would involve an awful lot of verbal and logical gymnastics.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

I like the word "power" better. This is about power, and its about time we stop with the pious verbiage and come to terms with what is going on. They have a power, and they are seeking destroy another power. I am siding with labor power. That's it. This is the game. Win or lose, with no apologetics. Hoist the sails ye sons of England!

[paft.livejournal.com]

Using "power" in this manner implies that labor power is as pervasive and well-funded as the power of the private sector. Sorry, but it's not -- or at least it's not in the United States.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

I agree with that.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Stay the mainsail! Jibber the jigs! Secure the pointy things! Run up the lines! Run about! Act like you're doing something! Stow the heavy things, heave the stowed things!

[jerseycajun.livejournal.com]

I don't look forward to having to defend it to you, in a sub-thread, going tit-for-tat for the next 12 hours and degenerating into a pointless stream of herculean nit-picking in which the original point gets lost and buried right next to the things I'd rather be doing today.

That's why I said that if I take on these issues at all, it would be better done in an OP, where I can lay out every aspect of what I'm thinking, instead of having to reference sub-thread-three, sentence two of a long buried and hard to track down response.

Kindly take this as an invitation for a rain-check and proceed to other threads for now.

Kthxbye.

[jerseycajun.livejournal.com]

I don't look forward to having to defend it to you, in a sub-thread, going tit-for-tat for the next 12 hours and degenerating into a pointless stream of herculean nit-picking in which the original point gets lost and buried right next to the things I'd rather be doing today.

That's why I said that if I take on these issues at all, it would be better done in an OP, where I can lay out every aspect of what I'm thinking, instead of having to reference sub-thread-three, sentence two of a long buried and hard to track down response.

Kindly take this as an invitation for a rain-check and proceed to other threads for now.

Kthxbye.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Why does Planned Parenthood or any private medical practice need federal money?

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Can I bookmark this comment?

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

There's a fairly good standard of what's unreasonable and what isn't already established, so your issue is a strawman.