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talkpoliticsI have ben encouraged to write as a person and not a spokesman for the Green party, and been told tha I dissect some great issues.
So cop this one folks - Is Obama ~really~ a Socialist; What Socialism is and if it has any effect on society. My own opinions coming right up.
First, lets define what we mean. I will let the egg heads go for a dictionary definition , but here is the working man's definition.
Socialism is where Society, usually thru' an elected government, does things.
Now, all Communists are Socialists by default, but not all Socialists ae communists. How come/
Well, Communism does not allow private property. A men may own a suit or a car under a communist system, but the land and all the means of production , including businesses that create wealth thru providing services like transport - these are all owned by the state.
Now, Socialists cover everyone who wants some sort of state intervetion , be it total or partial.
By this yardstick, if the State has an education policy and nothing else, it is partly Socialist and partly run on Capitalist Private Enterprise - and we could call it a Mixed Economy. but ist isn't really that mixed. Now suppose the State builds and runs hospitals as well?
Then the economy is getting even more mixed, with more Socialism, more state control.
Now, a country like the UK has currently got State Education and State Healthcare running alonside capitalist, private alternatives. It's a mixed economy.
Now, I have heard Americans on Youtube videos saying that Obama is a Communist, a Socialist and a Muslim. that he isn't even an American citizen. lets check some facts , shall we?
he was born in Hawaii. A US State when i went to school, and probably still is. if he were not allowed to stand for Prez, I am sure somebody would have told him so by now.
But is he a Communist? Evidently not - he has never advocated that all land , and all business concerns in America be turned over to State Ownership. So that claim is wrong . Period, as Americans might put it.
But, is he a Socialist? weell, how far does he want State control to go?
Are there State Schools in America? to that extent, he has got Socialist credentials.
To be frank, I think that Americans have been taking tax dollars to educate their kids for longer than most americans know.
Yet, State funded Education is a Socialist principle. Obama is therefore as much a Socialist as George Bush was. Not much, in other words. A country can only rid itself of the' taint' of Socialism when it can honestly say that the schools and hospitals are all privately funded. like thesewage system and the railroads. Thatcher said that in England "we buried Socialism". she lied. she cut it back, but never managed to kill it.
so long as the State controls any aspect of goods and services to the public, you have state controllled industry.
Now, as I have said before, the State can often run a good service. Nobody complains about the London Fire Brigade, nobody is running to buy up the sewers and even if they bought up the postal services, they would not be able to run a service to the outer hebrides and make a profit.
The best solution is a mixed economy. it is noteworthy that although Obama dragged thousands of people into the healthcare system in America, it is seems it's still funded by private insurance. it isn't truly socialist.
So cop this one folks - Is Obama ~really~ a Socialist; What Socialism is and if it has any effect on society. My own opinions coming right up.
First, lets define what we mean. I will let the egg heads go for a dictionary definition , but here is the working man's definition.
Socialism is where Society, usually thru' an elected government, does things.
Now, all Communists are Socialists by default, but not all Socialists ae communists. How come/
Well, Communism does not allow private property. A men may own a suit or a car under a communist system, but the land and all the means of production , including businesses that create wealth thru providing services like transport - these are all owned by the state.
Now, Socialists cover everyone who wants some sort of state intervetion , be it total or partial.
By this yardstick, if the State has an education policy and nothing else, it is partly Socialist and partly run on Capitalist Private Enterprise - and we could call it a Mixed Economy. but ist isn't really that mixed. Now suppose the State builds and runs hospitals as well?
Then the economy is getting even more mixed, with more Socialism, more state control.
Now, a country like the UK has currently got State Education and State Healthcare running alonside capitalist, private alternatives. It's a mixed economy.
Now, I have heard Americans on Youtube videos saying that Obama is a Communist, a Socialist and a Muslim. that he isn't even an American citizen. lets check some facts , shall we?
he was born in Hawaii. A US State when i went to school, and probably still is. if he were not allowed to stand for Prez, I am sure somebody would have told him so by now.
But is he a Communist? Evidently not - he has never advocated that all land , and all business concerns in America be turned over to State Ownership. So that claim is wrong . Period, as Americans might put it.
But, is he a Socialist? weell, how far does he want State control to go?
Are there State Schools in America? to that extent, he has got Socialist credentials.
To be frank, I think that Americans have been taking tax dollars to educate their kids for longer than most americans know.
Yet, State funded Education is a Socialist principle. Obama is therefore as much a Socialist as George Bush was. Not much, in other words. A country can only rid itself of the' taint' of Socialism when it can honestly say that the schools and hospitals are all privately funded. like thesewage system and the railroads. Thatcher said that in England "we buried Socialism". she lied. she cut it back, but never managed to kill it.
so long as the State controls any aspect of goods and services to the public, you have state controllled industry.
Now, as I have said before, the State can often run a good service. Nobody complains about the London Fire Brigade, nobody is running to buy up the sewers and even if they bought up the postal services, they would not be able to run a service to the outer hebrides and make a profit.
The best solution is a mixed economy. it is noteworthy that although Obama dragged thousands of people into the healthcare system in America, it is seems it's still funded by private insurance. it isn't truly socialist.
(no subject)
Date: 31/5/10 11:02 (UTC)Also, can we have a cut?
Now to the topic. Please explain again the relation between socialism and communism, and how all communists are socialists by default.
Also, extra exercise: by that yardstick, is nazional-sozialismus aka fascism also socialism or not?
And by the way you still mentioned the Green party so this post doesn't count as you Being Myself debut. :-P
(no subject)
Date: 31/5/10 14:00 (UTC)I'm sure we've all heard this one before...
SOCIALISM: You have two cows. State takes one and give it to someone else.
BUREAUCRATIC SOCIALISM: You have two cows. The government takes them and puts them in a barn with everyone else's cows. They are cared for by ex-chicken farmers. You have to take care of the chickens the government took from the chicken farmers. The government gives you as much milk and as many eggs as the regulations say you should need.
COMMUNISM: You have two cows. State takes both of them and gives you milk.
FASCISM: You have two cows. State takes both of them and sell you milk.
NAZISM: You have two cows. State takes both of them and shoot you.
BUREAUCRACY: You have two cows. State takes both of them, kill one and spill the milk in system of sewage.
CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.
but, you knew that right?
(no subject)
Date: 31/5/10 14:04 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 31/5/10 17:09 (UTC)Bad taste warning...
Date: 31/5/10 17:11 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 31/5/10 18:06 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 31/5/10 18:06 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 31/5/10 18:49 (UTC)right, Socialism = society, AKA the State doing things for the people.
now, as under Communism, The State does Everything, all commies are socialists.
howevs, not all socialists believe in Total State Ownership, so - say it with me
"All commies are socialists by default, but not all socialists are communists."
To what extend did Socialism feature inHitlers 3rd Riech? did he have any state run services laid on - to that extent, national Socialism treally was Socialism.
however, it is also possible to argue that since the individual was there for the State, and not vice versa, that it was also Fascism. Let us say 'Totalitarian' in nature.
ok, so I mentioned the freen party - at least I never claimed I was the Pope. :)
(no subject)
Date: 31/5/10 19:06 (UTC)