"Actual Violence"
11/7/14 20:56![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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talkpoliticsSome of you might remember something I posted four years ago about right wing thug Mike Vanderboegh and his blog call for loyal patriots to smash the windows of Democratic Party Offices. The result -- surprise surprise! -- was the smashing of windows in several Democratic Party Offices. Mr. Vanderboegh opined that he wasn't promoting "actual violence." “How ambiguous is it if I say break windows? Am I saying kill people, absolutely not,” he said.
As I pointed out, the comments section on his blog didn't exactly jibe with his insistence that, oh mercy no, he wasn't talking about KILLING people. They included:
“Today it was bricks, tomorrow it will be ???? The fuse has been lit.”
“We need to track these highly respectable representatives (cough) down to their residences. Where we can then present them a Hallmark card (cough) kindly requesting they consider the Contitution when they vote.. Rocks and bricks are optional but torchs, pitch forks, tar and feathers are encouraged!!”
“As we know, our society has its roots in broken windows - not to mention tar-and-feathers (always horrible, often fatal) and bullets!”
“I wonder if the brain dead socialist in Washington would get the idea if it happened a lot more often. Would a wrist rocket and some ball bearings help get the idea across?”
“I bought a pistol belt and load bearing harness at the Army/Navy surplus store today. Haven't worn one since 1981. Fits real nice.”
“Good thing 223 ammo is still cheep and available. just bought another 1000 rds for 'target' pratice. these clowns are the best gun and ammo salesman in the world.”
“4" PVC Pipe End Cap Portable Compressed Air Tank Hose Pipe Fittings Valve Expanding Foam for Sabot Brick Paint, Scope, Laser Rangefinder, and compensator optional. Use of above parts left to the imagination of the reader.”
“They're all whining about bricks...... Just wait until it turns to bullets.”
I was assured by Sandwich warrior that what ol' Mike REALLY meant was not "do what we say, or we'll kill you," but "leave us alone or we'll kill you." "Leave us alone," meaning, "don't vote for or pass any legislation we dislike."
The old dear is in the news again, and that bit about "absolutely not" advocating killing people...? Well, let's just say Mr. Mike has recently confirmed pretty much what a lot of us already know about what "Open Carry" is really all about. While making a speech at an Open Carry Rally he made the following comments:
...“We like to think that all our fellow Americans, even those who plainly state that they are committed to stealing our liberty and our property and attempting to control our very lives, are merely suffering from differences of opinion that can be overcome by the right mix of persuasion or electoral politics,” Vanderboegh said.
“Yet how many of us have tried such methods with every fiber of our being and fallen short?” he continued. “Not because we were wrong, but because those of the other side were impervious to such arguments, to such tactics, for they believe completely in their right to their appetites for our liberty, our property, and our lives with all the religious fervor of a pagan worship of naked power wrapped in a catechism of lies."
These "fellow Americans" who have been unaccountably unconvinced by his earlier "arguments" of hurling bricks through windows, are therefore, he told the crowd, “domestic enemies of the Constitution,” and as such we need to told:
"that failing all other appeals to peaceful means, that the founders’ solution to such tyranny is still available, still potent, and still waiting, for when democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizenry still gets to vote.”
i.e. "be CONVINCED by our arguments, dammit, or we'll shoot you."
I wonder what rationalizations I'll hear from certain quarters if one day one of these maniacs opens fire with his "bullets/votes" on a Democratic Politician -- or just a Democratic voter.
As I pointed out, the comments section on his blog didn't exactly jibe with his insistence that, oh mercy no, he wasn't talking about KILLING people. They included:
“Today it was bricks, tomorrow it will be ???? The fuse has been lit.”
“We need to track these highly respectable representatives (cough) down to their residences. Where we can then present them a Hallmark card (cough) kindly requesting they consider the Contitution when they vote.. Rocks and bricks are optional but torchs, pitch forks, tar and feathers are encouraged!!”
“As we know, our society has its roots in broken windows - not to mention tar-and-feathers (always horrible, often fatal) and bullets!”
“I wonder if the brain dead socialist in Washington would get the idea if it happened a lot more often. Would a wrist rocket and some ball bearings help get the idea across?”
“I bought a pistol belt and load bearing harness at the Army/Navy surplus store today. Haven't worn one since 1981. Fits real nice.”
“Good thing 223 ammo is still cheep and available. just bought another 1000 rds for 'target' pratice. these clowns are the best gun and ammo salesman in the world.”
“4" PVC Pipe End Cap Portable Compressed Air Tank Hose Pipe Fittings Valve Expanding Foam for Sabot Brick Paint, Scope, Laser Rangefinder, and compensator optional. Use of above parts left to the imagination of the reader.”
“They're all whining about bricks...... Just wait until it turns to bullets.”
I was assured by Sandwich warrior that what ol' Mike REALLY meant was not "do what we say, or we'll kill you," but "leave us alone or we'll kill you." "Leave us alone," meaning, "don't vote for or pass any legislation we dislike."
The old dear is in the news again, and that bit about "absolutely not" advocating killing people...? Well, let's just say Mr. Mike has recently confirmed pretty much what a lot of us already know about what "Open Carry" is really all about. While making a speech at an Open Carry Rally he made the following comments:
...“We like to think that all our fellow Americans, even those who plainly state that they are committed to stealing our liberty and our property and attempting to control our very lives, are merely suffering from differences of opinion that can be overcome by the right mix of persuasion or electoral politics,” Vanderboegh said.
“Yet how many of us have tried such methods with every fiber of our being and fallen short?” he continued. “Not because we were wrong, but because those of the other side were impervious to such arguments, to such tactics, for they believe completely in their right to their appetites for our liberty, our property, and our lives with all the religious fervor of a pagan worship of naked power wrapped in a catechism of lies."
These "fellow Americans" who have been unaccountably unconvinced by his earlier "arguments" of hurling bricks through windows, are therefore, he told the crowd, “domestic enemies of the Constitution,” and as such we need to told:
"that failing all other appeals to peaceful means, that the founders’ solution to such tyranny is still available, still potent, and still waiting, for when democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizenry still gets to vote.”
i.e. "be CONVINCED by our arguments, dammit, or we'll shoot you."
I wonder what rationalizations I'll hear from certain quarters if one day one of these maniacs opens fire with his "bullets/votes" on a Democratic Politician -- or just a Democratic voter.
(no subject)
Date: 13/7/14 17:15 (UTC)If they are making speeches to armed crowds about shooting the opposition, buying up guns and ammo, and marching around in public with their weapons yeah, that's a threat that should be taken seriously.
s: I seem to recall you and numerous others jumping through a whole lot of hoops trying to explain how the violent rhetoric coming out of certain wings of OWS was nothing to be concerned about.
The "hoops" being, "OWS aren't the ones showing up with guns and they have generally been the victims, rather than the perpetrators of violence." I realize that reality is inconvenient to a lot of people on the right, and the facts may seem like a "whole bunch of hoops" to you, but to most people it's pretty straightforward.
Do feel free to link to some of those old discussions about OWS if you like. I don't think they'll make your arguments look any better.
s: Likewise that having union members show up at the homes of executives was not a show of force.
And where exactly did I say that?
(no subject)
Date: 14/7/14 15:17 (UTC)It was the other way around. There was already a rally and he just got up to speak. He could have made that speech at a church picnic or Rotary club being the crazy old great uncle he is.
He is painted as a man of influence and to be watched and feared. In reality he is an opportunist seeking some sort of relevance to his time on the planet.
I know it is frustrating when others don't share the alarm presented. Forgive us?
(no subject)
Date: 14/7/14 21:05 (UTC)And exactly how does the phrase " While making a speech at an Open Carry Rally" do this?
rd: He is painted as a man of influence and to be watched and feared..
Those are your words, not mine. You're exaggerating my arguments in order to make them sound unreasonable. No, I would not call him "a man of influence" "to be watched and feared." I'd call him an armed crackpot who's caught the ear of some other armed crackpots and could very well incite them to hurt people whom they define as "enemies of the constitution." And no, I am not "alarmed" in that I am not quaking under my bed and listening for the sound of jackboots. I am concerned, however, that somebody is going to decide to "patriotically" attack perceived liberals or Democrats in the manner of Jim David Adkisson or Richard Poplawski. Don't see it as likely here in San Francisco, but I do have relatives in the south and I'm a bit concerned about them being harassed.
Frankly, I suspect that at least some of the people here dismissing my concerns are not dismissing them because they think they are unrealistic. They are dismissing them because if a gun does go off and injure and kill one of those perceived "constitutional enemies," it's okay with them.