[identity profile] abomvubuso.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
[Error: unknown template video]

I think this vid is pretty succinct, how'dya think? Well, the exit polls are unambiguous. There'll be no 2nd round, Putin wins the presidential election in Russia. 58-60% roughly. And no surprise there.

The result was anticipated, and is hardly a shock for anybody. More important is what the opposition's reaction would be and what are Putin's next moves. He'll have to choose between reform or constant protests, repressions and economic stagnation. Whichever way he chooses, he'll have to relinquish absolutist power. Why? Well, let's see why.

First, about the vote. Today the central streets of Moscow and St.Petersburg were blocked by military trucks an thousands of troops. It was like martial law. The opposition is planning to begin protests on Monday, and on Sunday only pro-Putin rallies were allowed. Meanwhile the ministry of internal affairs decided to deploy a small army that could easily overtake a medium-sized city.

The first data from the exit polls showed about 50% turnout, which would be just about enough to conveniently shut the mouths of the critics who were ready to claim that the elections are illegitimate because they don't reflect the will of the people.

There were lots of complaints that no true choice and no real alternative to Putin had been presented. All other 4 candidates were unelectable clowns (see video above) - the commie Zyuganov, the ultra-nationalist Zhirinovski, the former speaker of parliament Mironov and the billionaire Prokhorov (prior post here). Others are convinced that Putin is "Our Father" and the only strong choice, the Savior who has the energy and competence to lead the largest country in the world (and incidentally, the richest in natural resources). "I'll vote for Putin because he's a good president and he'll take care of our children, our future" (literal translation from a Russian ЖЖ-er).

Others are hatin' on his macho image and they despise the system he has created, the one that has made Russia look like... well, Russia. It has always been like that, come to think of it - be it the Romanovs, Stalin, or the Soviet mummies. Seems like the old proverb is true after all: Every Nation Deserves The Leaders It Gets.

So, given the specifics of the Russian constitution (very conveniently shaped btw), Putin could hypothetically reign from his throne in Kremlin until 2024. Unless another change of constitution happens, which would proclaim him emperor. But still, 2024 sounds nice. That'll be a reign almost as long as Stalin's. Congrats, Russia.

This time it didn't go so as easily for Putin as it may look like, though. Initially he underestimated the protests against the rigged parliamentary elections last December. He didn't even try to conceal his condescension when he called the white ribbons that were the symbol of the Fair Elections movement "a bunch of unwrapped condoms". But his election campaign went in a completely different tone - after all, Putin had to be re-elected in order to stop the resurgence of anarchy in the country - that was his main message (as if he was almost saying that his puppy Medvedev had allowed anarchy back into the country; which may make you wonder how come he'll nominate him for prime-minister again - and you can be sure that he will).

But, like Masha Gessen said on Jon Stewart's show last Wednesday (bold lady indeed), there are three pillars upon which Putin's power structure rests: 1) fear, 2) connections, and 3) money. And the fear factor has now been taken out of the equation. Now Putin will have to deal with the winds of change that are sweeping across the Russian cities. Moscow is holding its breath. The police is everywhere. What will happen from here on, might very much depend on how much per cents Putin wins. If he wins a lot, like more than 60-70%, then a radicalisation of the situation is very possible. But if he wins much less, then he could prove prone to concessions in order to ease the tensions.

Putin could respond to the bottom-up push for change in two possible ways. He could either make concessions or he could try to suppress it with force. But either way, he's in a lose-lose situation because either scenario would weaken his power, albeit in a different way. His KGB past, his authoritarian reputation and his increasingly anti-West rhetoric are creating suspicions that he'll choose the hard way. And this would mean further encapsulating of the regime, more repressions against the media, crushing the protests, persecuting the opposition, and flexing geopolitical muscles in Europe and the UN Security Council. And thus Putin's new term could prove a real nightmare.

The new/old president of Russia could choose reform of course - new parliamentary elections, freer media, releasing the political prisoners. But that looks highly unlikely. And either way, all of this would only weaken his grip on power. The harder he tries, the more it'll be slipping away.

All indications are that the end of the authoritarian rule in Russia can be already spotted on the horizon. But what will follow after that... Now, that is a very disturbing question.
 

(no subject)

Date: 6/3/12 08:26 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com
Ha-ha-ha!
Yes, Wikipedia - a source of trustworthy!*
*sarcasm

(no subject)

Date: 6/3/12 08:30 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
Well, Wiki is really not the ultimate thing, but at least it's a guideline to finding more info on a subject - like, the one that's hidden behind the relevant citations in the footnotes. It's part of doing a research, as opposed to saying "This ain't true, bye" without providing any actual evidence to support your refutal. ;-)

(no subject)

Date: 6/3/12 08:46 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com
So you have to give a link to the source, not on the wiki.

(no subject)

Date: 6/3/12 09:17 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
Be my guest.

On political prisoners:
http://gulaghistory.org/nps/onlineexhibit/dissidents/prisoners.php
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/world/A0861075.html
http://www.123helpme.com/view.asp?id=23579

On dissidents being sent to Siberia:
http://gulaghistory.org/nps/onlineexhibit/dissidents/

On forceful deportations of entire ethnicities to remote lands far away from their original homes:
http://www.memo.ru/history/deport/
http://gulaghistory.org/nps/onlineexhibit/stalin/crimes.php
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3509933.stm
http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1058729.html

Deportation ot Tatars:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/not_in_website/syndication/monitoring/media_reports/1995670.stm
http://books.google.bg/books?vid=ISBN0415182972&id=lYMsIE5KjmMC&pg=PA130&lpg=PA129&dq=stalin+deportations+tatar&sig=cnQ1lERPtpcCT34zFUEgy8E-eAc&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=stalin%20deportations%20tatar&f=false

Forced labor camps for non-Russian ethnicities:
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/USSR.TAB1B.GIF

More on the deportations from across Eastern Europe:
http://www.migrationeducation.org/13.0.html

Tolstoy also wrote about the forced repatriation of millions of people:
http://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis/archive/issue.asp?year=1988&month=12

A curious episode: the deportation of Jews into the Far East:
http://www.reds-on.postalstamps.biz/Russia/birobidzhan.htm

The history of deportation of Koreans:
http://kungrad.com/history/etno/kor/
http://www.novayagazeta.ru/society/44692.html

Let's add the Holodomor, the "Secret Holocaust" in Ukraine:
http://www.holodomorct.org/history.html
http://www.thenewamerican.com/history/european/761


Do you have your own refutal to add, or you'd just dismiss it all?

(no subject)

Date: 6/3/12 10:35 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com
Walked selectively on the links.
I saw this the same wikipedia without proof.

The source can serve as a historical document, the work of the historian with a link to historical documents, and not fudge on the site (with pictures of bottles))), and links to news site. I do not see it.

For example, a historical document:
By the way, congratulations on the anniversary.
Image
Edited Date: 6/3/12 10:56 (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 6/3/12 11:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
> Walked selectively on the links.

Yeah, I know. :-)

Which anniversary?

(no subject)

Date: 6/3/12 11:42 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com
Yeah, I know. :-)
Well, the sites novayagazeta and BBC did not even go to allude to the mass media is mauvais ton. A novayagazeta in Russia is considered propaganda newspaper.

Which anniversary?
March 6, 1857 U.S. Supreme Court ruled that slaves are property, not citizens.

(no subject)

Date: 6/3/12 12:15 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
I'm not American. It's not my anniversary.

Good at least that you didn't cite Pravda as a source.

(no subject)

Date: 6/3/12 12:30 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com
O, Bulgaria! Sorry, did not know.
Yes, "Pravda" is also not a reliable source, as well as writings of the revisionists.

By the way, the court has recently ruled that the Red Army could not have shot Polish officers in Katyn.

(no subject)

Date: 6/3/12 12:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
Yep. Talking about revisionism.

Whose court?

(no subject)

Date: 6/3/12 12:46 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
So a Russian court acquits a Russian atrocity? That's just... beautiful.

(no subject)

Date: 6/3/12 12:58 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com
The court makes decisions based on facts ... In Bulgaria it is done differently?

(no subject)

Date: 6/3/12 13:00 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
Let's stay focused on the Russian court for now if you don't mind. A Russian court says that Russia didn't do anything wrong. And you don't notice anything suspicious in this?

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 13:31 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 13:34 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 13:56 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 14:14 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 14:37 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 14:41 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 15:13 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 15:41 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 16:17 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 16:45 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 17:16 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 6/3/12 13:05 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com
At first, it was a political decision.
Second, people make mistakes, and then principally to correct these errors. That the court did.

(no subject)

Date: 6/3/12 13:23 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com
Court on the basis of the facts come to the conclusion that the shooting was in September 1941. At this time, these places were occupied by the Germans.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 13:57 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 14:41 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 14:59 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 15:17 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 15:59 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 13:31 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 13:53 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 14:08 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 15:31 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 15:42 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 15:54 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 6/3/12 14:03 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com
Incidentally, this statement says that it is "a subjective evaluation of the signatories ... and their personal perception."

(no subject)

Date: 6/3/12 14:25 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com
Therefore, the court and overturned the decision. It is a personal judgment ... freedom of thought and word, yes.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 14:43 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 14:58 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 15:09 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 15:49 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 16:07 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com - Date: 6/3/12 17:18 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 6/3/12 13:05 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com
Obviously the Red Army didn't do it. Ded Moroz and Koshchey Bessmertny came along with a bunch of Lilliputians and killed the Polish officers, using forks and chainsaws. A unicorn once told me so.
Edited Date: 6/3/12 13:05 (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 6/3/12 13:25 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pofigistiks.livejournal.com
Probably. It ask the Germans, after Katyn was occupied by the Germans at that time.

(no subject)

Date: 6/3/12 13:32 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com
Are you sure (http://talk-politics.livejournal.com/1370492.html?thread=109133692#t109133692)?

Credits & Style Info

Talk Politics.

A place to discuss politics without egomaniacal mods


MONTHLY TOPIC:

Failed States

DAILY QUOTE:
"Someone's selling Greenland now?" (asthfghl)
"Yes get your bids in quick!" (oportet)
"Let me get my Bid Coins and I'll be there in a minute." (asthfghl)

June 2025

M T W T F S S
       1
2 34 5 678
910 1112 131415
16171819202122
23242526272829
30      

Summary