Why is this Information Not Offered?

[paft.livejournal.com]

Back in July, I posted a video a woman took while trying to get her son a voting ID in Wisconsin. At the time what I emphasized was the fact that the DMV apparently considered “bank activity” a requirement for voting. But there was more to the conversation. Given information that’s recently linked about about DMV employees being instructed NOT to offer certain information, it’s worth seeing again. The pertinent part of the conversation begins at about the 4.30 mark:

Woman: If someone were to just say thet needed a state ID card, would they know it was free, if it was for voting?

Man at DMV: Uhhh, unless they tell us it was for voting, we charge ‘em. Cause it’s….

Woman: Why is that, because with the new law, the Voter ID bill…

Man at DMV: It’s going to discourage them.

Woman: They’re…It’s supposed to be free.

Man at DMV: If it’s for…

Woman: So why wouldn’t you tell them that, right from the start, “Voter ID is free.”

Man at DMV: They’re the same card, so, unless you come in and specifically request it, we charge you for it. Like, let’s say you’re 20 and you’re going on a trip. You may not vote, so we’re still going to charge them for that card.

Woman: But would you ask them? Would you say “is this for voting, or…

Man at DMV: If they check the box, so…um, it’s, you know, one of them where… They shouldn’t even be doing any of it, but it’s one of them where they wanted to make this law, and now it’s going to affect a lot of people, so if it’s for voting, we do it for free, but we don’t know that they’re going to use it for voting.

Woman: Why don’t you have that as a, you know, I would like to ask your supervisor, why don’t you ask people, “Is this for voting? Is this ID for voting or is it for something else?”

Man at DMV: They put it on here and that satisifies the state statute so, um you know I can’t really answer that question.

Woman: I would like to ask your supervisor that question.

Man at DMV: Okay, I’ll go get him...

Supervisor: They need to ask for it. It’s something that is available but they should ask for it.

Woman: But why not ask them, “Is this a voter ID card or a regular ID card?”

Supervisor: Because… the, the, pol… (seems at a loss)

Woman: I mean, have you been given instructions?

Supervisor: Yeah, the problem, the instruction is that if someone comes in and says “I need an ID card to go and vote,” that it’s free. If it is an original issuance or a renewal. But if someone comes in and they’ve lost their ID, it’s not within its renewal period and they need a replacement, then we have to charge for it. So a replacement, a duplicate...

Woman: But couldn’t you ask them, “Is this a renewal or a replacement or is this for a Voter ID?"

Supervisor: Our instruction is to let them ask.

Woman: And so who gave you that direction?

Supervisor: Well, it’s from the powers-that-be.

Woman: Who would that be?

Supervisor: Well, that would be, the next step in my chain of command would be Tracy Howard…

In fact, it was recently revealed that the instructions came from a top Department of Transportation official Steve Kreaiser:

While you should certainly help customers who come in asking for a free ID to check the appropriate box, you should refrain from offering the free version to customers who do not ask for it.

If the DMV officials in the video seem a wee bit ambivalent to you, it’s probably not your imagination. Recently a Wisconsin state employee was fired for sending out an email calling people so spread the word about the free IDs.

An interview with the employee can be heard here.

Whether or not the employee was wise to do what he did, this raises questions about the motives behind this voter ID law. Why would specific instructions go out for DMV officials not to offer information that would prevent applicants from essentially paying for the right to vote?

Crossposted from Thoughtcrimes

Comments

[bikinisquad3000.livejournal.com]

People unaware of that will not find it out from the DMV because the DMV has been instructed not to tell them, is the problem. For some this will mean that they don't vote because they mistakenly believe they can't afford it--a misunderstanding the state should be trying to correct, not ignoring and/or actively keeping alive.

That said, this post ignores what the checked box is all about. If there's a form that clearly says "check here for the free voter ID" that's basically the same as telling them verbally, so I dunno. I would be interested to find out how easy it is to discover that voter ID is free without depending upon a DMV employee to tell you. (Based on Walker's track record with this so far, though, the safe bet is probably that it's not easy.)

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

People unaware of that will not find it out from the DMV because the DMV has been instructed not to tell them, is the problem.

They don't need to find out from the DMV. People going to the DMV for a voter ID will be asking for a voter ID. The DMV has to assume IDs are for other identification purposes, as a voter ID probably won't be able to act as a legal ID anywhere else.

For some this will mean that they don't vote because they mistakenly believe they can't afford it--a misunderstanding the state should be trying to correct, not ignoring and/or actively keeping alive.

"But I thought I could get a free voter ID."
"Oh, you can."
"Okay, I'll have one of those."

Problem solved.

I would be interested to find out how easy it is to discover that voter ID is free without depending upon a DMV employee to tell you. (Based on Walker's track record with this so far, though, the safe bet is probably that it's not easy.)

The answer is likely easier than what's being posted.

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

To those of use still reeling from the abuses in voting roles and polling places being closed or in inadequate supply in places, gee, like Ohio and Florida, this smacks of more of the same.

It may not be more of the same, but it smells like it, so the point is being raised.

As an LJer once noted, "Sufficiently advanced incompetence proves indistinguishable from malice."

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

It may not be more of the same, but it smells like it, so the point is being raised.

One involves securing voting, the other involves failures in voting.

How are they remotely the same?

As an LJer once noted, "Sufficiently advanced incompetence proves indistinguishable from malice."

Not sure what's malicious about this, either.

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

There may be nothing malicious, but there is plenty here that's suspicious.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

What's suspicious about it?

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

The thing is that unlike those others this really is fire with smoke. If someone were to advocate burning crosses as a defense of traditional American culture it would have the same overtone. Totalitarian states mandate everyone carry papers, democracies do not.

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

Exactly. It's a creep toward the Authoritarian side of the spectrum.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

And a return to US traditions that are best left in the history books.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

Not explaining to people they can get a free ID for voting purposes is a step toward authoritarianism but forced collectivization isn't.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

I don't know who that LJer was, but I'm Dailyquoting (http://talk-politics.livejournal.com/1066855.html#cutid1) you!

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

Credit where due! It was tacit. I modified the quote a bit from the original (shortened it a bit, punched up the verb choice, but left the concept intact) found in the last sentence here (http://tacit.livejournal.com/359564.html).

[bikinisquad3000.livejournal.com]

People going to the DMV for a voter ID will be asking for a voter ID. The DMV has to assume IDs are for
 other identification purposes, as a voter ID probably won't be able to
 act as a legal ID anywhere else.

The Wisconsin voter ID was created strictly to keep in place the law requiring a photo ID (any photo ID) to vote; said law was put into place at the end of May of this year, or about three months ago. Assuming they're getting a regular ID for purposes other than voting is indeed something they have to do, but not because it makes the most sense--it's because that's literally what they must do, as per instructions. Why? Some potential voters may be unaware the free voter ID exists. Some may be unaware that it is free. Of those people, some may think they're financially unable to vote, or simply not want to spend the money, or will spend money they can ill afford unnecessarily just to be eligible to vote. Is there any reason you can think of why DMV employees should be discouraged from informing them of the free voter ID?

 "But I thought I could get a free voter ID."
"Oh, you can."
"Okay, I'll have one of those."

I'm talking about people unaware that they have a free option.

The answer is likely easier than what's being posted.

It's on their DMV website, at least, so that's good. Still wondering though.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Is there any reason you can think of why DMV employees should be discouraged from informing them of the free voter ID?

To keep people from trying to get a free voter ID instead of an ID that actually means something outside of the voting place. Saves work and time for when they'd inevitably have to come back.

I'm talking about people unaware that they have a free option.

If you're going in for a voter ID, you know.

[mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com]

To keep people from trying to get a free voter ID instead of an ID that actually means something outside of the voting place. Saves work and time for when they'd inevitably have to come back.

From the sound of it a voter ID card and a non drivers license ID are the same thing, except if you go there saying you need it strictly for voting you can get it for free.

So unless they inevitably decide they want to start driving, they won't have to come back.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

From the sound of it a voter ID card and a non drivers license ID are the same thing, except if you go there saying you need it strictly for voting you can get it for free.

I could be wrong, but I don't think that's the case.

[bikinisquad3000.livejournal.com]

To keep people from trying to get a free voter ID instead of an ID that actually means something outside of the voting place. Saves work and time for when they'd inevitably have to come back.

So not telling them about the voter ID at all is preferable to saying "this ID is only good for voting?" Not buying it, sorry.


If you're going in for a voter ID, you know.

But if you're going in for an ID in order to vote, you may not. Again, the ID-to-vote law was put on the books three months ago, and the law itself only requires any kind of photo ID--it's a perfectly reasonable scenario for someone to go in and pay for a license just to vote (or more to the point, decide not to), if they're unaware of the voting-specific form of ID available. (I've been trying to find out but I'm not sure how much newer the voter ID is; all I know is that it did not arrive the same day as the law, but was a later response to potential challenges to the law. It's a new option, is what I'm saying.)

There's just no reasonable basis to assume anyone getting an ID for voting purposes already knows the voting-specific ID exists.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

So not telling them about the voter ID at all is preferable to saying "this ID is only good for voting?" Not buying it, sorry.

That's fine. You might not buy the entire concept to begin with, either.

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

I would be interested to find out how easy it is to discover that voter ID is free without depending upon a DMV employee to tell you. (Based on Walker's track record with this so far, though, the safe bet is probably that it's not easy.)

It's on the Wisconsin DMV website. I posted this information about a week ago.

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/drivers/apply/idcard.htm

[telemann.livejournal.com]

That's nice, but anywhere from 18 to 30 percent (depending on the state etc) don't have Internet. Chances are, if paying for a ID card is an issue, I'd bet having Internet would be one too.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

If you think free things aren't known about at the bottom of the economic ladder then you really don't know many poor people.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

[paft.livejournal.com]

If you think free things are not often deliberately hidden by bureaucracies, I got a gorgeous bridge here in San Francisco to sell you.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

Pfff... everyone knows bureaucracies are places of generosity and compassion... unlike businesses which would murder you and piss on your grave if it wasn't illegal.

[bikinisquad3000.livejournal.com]

Found it there myself earlier, but thanks!