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talkpoliticsProfessor Richard Dawkins has said the he is ' A Cultural Christian'.
In a news story on the BBC website, he declared that he has no wish to see Christmas cancelled, or see Britain lose any part of it's Christian heritage. This may come as a surprise to some, but his website tends to direct its venom towards the more negative aspects of religious belief.
These include the Catholic Church's stance on child molesting priests, it's opposition to contraception, and its condemnation of gay people. Yet Protestant believers come in for criticism too. It isn't simply a belief in Adam and Eve that Dawkins criticises, it's the Old Testament's account of Joshua's conquests, the concept of Hell and the moral standards taught in the O.T. that also provoke his ire.
Well, my take on it is as follows -
the Jews didn't really do the conquest of Canaan like the Bible says,in fact they didn't conquer Canaan at all - Joshua's campaign was largely a propaganda exercise done in a later period;
the concept of Hell as a place of eternal torment rests upon misinterpretation and misunderstanding of certain Biblical passages, as well as a certain amount of Hellenistic influence;
the sexism, racism and homophobia are all there in the Torah, but the Jews themselves got over a lot of it before Jesus came along and finished the job.
If we were to teach History in school and pay more attention to events in the Levant around the Bronze Age, it would do a lot to dispel the negative influence that religious mythology still has on society. We can dump all that stuff and still have a version of Christianity that is different from Atheism. And, yes, I would be happy to explain the specifics in the comments - if I get any:)
In a news story on the BBC website, he declared that he has no wish to see Christmas cancelled, or see Britain lose any part of it's Christian heritage. This may come as a surprise to some, but his website tends to direct its venom towards the more negative aspects of religious belief.
These include the Catholic Church's stance on child molesting priests, it's opposition to contraception, and its condemnation of gay people. Yet Protestant believers come in for criticism too. It isn't simply a belief in Adam and Eve that Dawkins criticises, it's the Old Testament's account of Joshua's conquests, the concept of Hell and the moral standards taught in the O.T. that also provoke his ire.
Well, my take on it is as follows -
the Jews didn't really do the conquest of Canaan like the Bible says,in fact they didn't conquer Canaan at all - Joshua's campaign was largely a propaganda exercise done in a later period;
the concept of Hell as a place of eternal torment rests upon misinterpretation and misunderstanding of certain Biblical passages, as well as a certain amount of Hellenistic influence;
the sexism, racism and homophobia are all there in the Torah, but the Jews themselves got over a lot of it before Jesus came along and finished the job.
If we were to teach History in school and pay more attention to events in the Levant around the Bronze Age, it would do a lot to dispel the negative influence that religious mythology still has on society. We can dump all that stuff and still have a version of Christianity that is different from Atheism. And, yes, I would be happy to explain the specifics in the comments - if I get any:)
Re: 'Crap' theology?
Date: 28/7/11 23:43 (UTC)I cannot prove it, but i hope that it is there , all the same.
But for me, Resurrection also implies a new life in the here nad now - and a very different view of status and possessions to the one I was brought up to have.
Salvation ? I believe it is a process, not an event. i am Being saved. I was not saved once, became a Christian as a result. nor did Ii become a Christian , and that means I am saved now.
no, I am in the process of becoming a Christian , and am still being saved, bit by bit, and have a long way to go yet.
We are getting to specifics, but I hope this will answer your question, at least partly.
Lets try again
Date: 28/7/11 23:47 (UTC)Re: Lets try again
Date: 28/7/11 23:59 (UTC)I cannot ~prove~ that. but I believe that this is possible, because the possibility of Jesus being god Incarnate is still open , for me at least.
Two things -
If Christ was God, it does not mean that the OT is true or binding on us. it does not prove that god is sexist, racist and anti gay.
Also, even if you were back there in Jerusalem and saw Jesus heal the lepers and walk on water - that was not the thing that mattered. The Pharisees saw the miracles too, but insisted that jesus was doing it by means of the Devil's power, not God's.
" Who do ~you~ say I am?" Jesus asked Peter. It is still the question we have to ask today. We are not bound or compelled to believe. It is about our hearts and our feelings, not the cold dead letter of scientific fact. It is a free choice, and I choose to believe, because I want it to be true.
Re: Lets try again
Date: 29/7/11 00:03 (UTC)Re: Lets try again
Date: 29/7/11 00:04 (UTC)Re: Lets try again
Date: 29/7/11 00:06 (UTC)Re: Lets try again
Date: 29/7/11 00:26 (UTC)So which will it be for you? Heresy? Or heresy??? Make up your mind!
Re: Lets try again
Date: 29/7/11 00:31 (UTC)Re: Lets try again
Date: 29/7/11 00:32 (UTC)Re: Lets try again
Date: 29/7/11 07:42 (UTC)I am in the URC and left a literalist back ground. I feel that the Torah does indeed portray God in a bad light, and says more about the writers than God Himself.
Re: Lets try again
Date: 29/7/11 07:44 (UTC)Re: Lets try again
Date: 29/7/11 08:45 (UTC)Want to give me yours ?
Re: Lets try again
Date: 29/7/11 08:57 (UTC)Re: Lets try again
Date: 29/7/11 00:06 (UTC)In Mark 16:16, Jesus is recorded as saying "He who does not believe will be condemned." What do you make of this statement?
I choose to believe, because I want it to be true.
What if someone chooses to believe there was a worldwide flood because they "want it to be true?" Is that reasonable? What if I choose to believe God wants me to have sex with your wife because I "want it to be true?" Is that reasonable?
Re: Lets try again
Date: 29/7/11 07:24 (UTC)OTOH , I think more is to be gained from believing that we should be like the Good Samaritan , in spite of what folks may say to the contrary.
Re: Lets try again
Date: 29/7/11 07:33 (UTC)What if someone chooses to believe there was a worldwide flood because they "want it to be true?" Is that reasonable? What if I choose to believe God wants me to have sex with your wife because I "want it to be true?" Is that reasonable?
Both are wrong for different reasons.
it was not compelling logic that revealed the truth about Christ to peter, but the Holy Spirit according to Jesus, when he asked Peter 'who do you say I am?'
People who want to believe in a global flood are going against all available evidence. Jesus being god incarnate? Well, can a God exist? Can God take human form? I take these as a given and science is unable to pronounce on these things because god is outside and above the laws of Science.
I have to say that I am drawn to Christ, rather than being repelled by His character as revealed in the gospels. And although God knows our choices, he does allow us free choice to be moral agents, i think.
Re: Lets try again
Date: 29/7/11 12:45 (UTC)That's a ridiculous reading of that verse. You're saying all atheists are "bad" people? Or are you saying that by "believe" Jesus is referring to agreement with moral principles?
Both are wrong for different reasons.
No, they are wrong for the same reason. It is not reasonable to believe something simply because one "wants it to be true."
Re: Lets try again
Date: 29/7/11 23:10 (UTC)Stephen Fry, for instance, has a lot of respect for Jesus as a moral teacher, but not a lot for the Church.
It is not reasonable to believe something simply because one "wants it to be true."
Well, I look at the Story of the Good Samaritan , and I think ' yes, I agree with this and the rest of what He says. I cannot think of much that Moses said about Him, but i am open to the idea that there might be verses I have overlooked, or misunderstood. This is something i have yet to discover.
But, for anyone who wants to say "look - life is simply there for what you can take. there is nothing there really - no hell below us, above us only sky".
Well, it is a compelling argument , with a lot to back it up. however, i chooose to reject that way of thinking for Jesus way of thinking . we are here to serve others, as he did.
To me , it makes sense. to some atheists , it doesn't. And maybe that is what Jesus is getting at when he says that one who is born of the spirit is like the wind, it blows where and when it likes, and no one knows where it comes from or where it will go.
I cannot really explain or justify my notions of fairness and justice, of believing that Jesus was the Messiah - I just do. And maybe that is what Jesus was getting at when talking to Nicodemus. Maybe...
Re: Lets try again
Date: 30/7/11 00:44 (UTC)