Western NGOs - The' New Imperialism'?

[mintogrubb.livejournal.com]

It has been said that the people in the Western World should just keep out of developing nations, that
the era of ' the White Man's Burden' is over, and we can never correct the mistakes of the past ourselves.

So, what are we to do about the situation that we see on our TV screens, I ask?

I know there are some that say 'Just accept the fact that you are privileged - there is nothing you can do for the poor in developing countries'.

Oh , yeah? How about ...

Amnesty International. do you realise that Amnesty is over 50 yrs old, and has freed many people from detention around the world? It has supported the peaceful struggle for democratic representation and is currently still fighting the corner for Aung San Su Ky and for Democracy in Burma.

The Fair Fair Trade Foundation.
By setting up workers co operatives with people in the developing world, it enables people in those countries to grow food and earn more money than they would by working on a plantation run by Nestle or any other traditional corporation.

The Grameen Bank.
By supplying micro credit to people in the third world, mostly women , they enable people to start businesses and make income of their own .

Trade Justice.
The world's poor take their goods to market. but the tariffs, quotas, commodity prices and such are all set out by the World Trade Organisation, that meets in New York. The UK can afford to send many delegates to the USA to argue their case and speak up for them and their industries. Sadly, the people of Ghana cannot afford to send anyone. like many developing nations, their voice is never heard at the trade conferences were decisions involving them get made.

So, I think that we ought to be supporting these causes and organisations as individuals and as national communities.

the Mises Institute has said that the Fair trade movement is 'distorting the market', yet I don't hear Mises complain when the US government subsidises the American Cotton growing corporations and allows them to dump subsidised cotton on the world market that kills local competition in developing countries stone dead.

The Mises Institute doesn't mind an easy ride for the rich it seems , but wants to discourage us from helping the poor.

But anyway - how can anyone complain about the activities of these organisations in the developing world?
What do local people say about them? What alternatives are there that right wingers and other critics would put up ?

The free market, did someone say?
the free market gave us Nestle - which prompted the Nestle Boycott.
the Free Market led to the backlash that prompted the rise of Socialism in Britain .
lets remember that the people of the Soviet bloc who risked their lives to cross the Berlin Wall were not heading for a free market, but rather the regulated markets and mixed economies of democratic Western Europe.

in the last 50 years, the NGOs like Amnesty International and the Fair Trade Foundation have done a great deal to develop a higher standard of living in the poorer nations of the world. free trade , by contrast, has gone in and marketed tobacco in Africa in order to make easier profits - marketing and advertising regulations have lower standards than the UK and USA, and tobacco corporations are quick to take advantage and go for easy profits here. I feel it's the corporations that represent the new Imperialism , and not the NGOs like Amnesty International.

Comments

[eracerhead.livejournal.com]

To the extent it can provide greater efficiency, hence provide lower cost to the consumer and higher return to the producer, there is nothing wrong with fair trade goods. It's just cutting out the "middle-man."

Government subsidies simply externalize some cost to the taxpayer. It should not be called fair trade because it is exactly the opposite. Tariffs against governments that do this can discourage the practice.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

I would think that rather than heading for a free economy they were preferring democracy, where the Stasi and Soviet army weren't the determining factors in politics. But that may be just me. Economies mean less than the ability to get out of the bloodthirsty repression that the GDR, which preserved a lot of the Nazi repression-apparatus intact did.

[tridus.livejournal.com]

People need to put some thought into what they're actually doing when they try to "help".

There was an article not too long ago I read about someone harassing their friends for donations so they could go to Africa and build houses. People who refused were threatened with being "outed" on Facebook for not caring about poor people.

Now if you think about that for a moment, what does caring about poor people have to do with taking a rich privileged person, spending thousands of dollars on fuel and food to send them halfway around the planet so they can volunteer to do something that the local population is perfectly capable of doing on their own (and might be doing as paid work)?

So there's a perfect example of where they advice "keep out" is entirely correct. This person is doing far more harm then good with their do-gooder attitude.

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

I don't hear Mises complain when the US government subsidises the American Cotton growing corporations

Then you're not listening very closely.

[rasilio.livejournal.com]

"
the Mises Institute has said that the Fair trade movement is 'distorting the market', yet I don't hear Mises complain when the US government subsidises the American Cotton growing corporations and allows them to dump subsidised cotton on the world market that kills local competition in developing countries stone dead."

Then you are not listening loud enough.

Mises actively argues against ALL government subsidies.

As far as "dumping" it on the market, here is where both Mises and I would disagree with you that there is a problem. If America can grow cotton cheaper than anyone else in the world then there is no reason we should not sell it for the lowest price we can and dominate the market.

In fact any attempts at tarrifs or trade quotas to protect local cotton growers by other countries would only be counterproductive and harm the very poor you wish to help.

However you are correct to oppose the government subsidies of Cotton, both here, and abroad.

[rasilio.livejournal.com]

"The Mises Institute doesn't mind an easy ride for the rich it seems , but wants to discourage us from helping the poor."

Um, no it doesn't. Pointing out what you believe to be an economic fallacy behind a given charity program is not saying you can't help the poor, it is saying that you believe this particular program to be counterproductive.

[rasilio.livejournal.com]

"Amnesty International. do you realise that Amnesty is over 50 yrs old, and has freed many people from detention around the world? It has supported the peaceful struggle for democratic representation and is currently still fighting the corner for Aung San Su Ky and for Democracy in Burma. "


Amnesty International does absolutely nothing to help the poor but they do a lot of good work to advance the cause of freedom, however they also waste quite a bit of effort trying to equate terrorists and other criminals with political prisoners. I don't care how just your cause, when you blow up a school you deserve to be punished.

"The Fair Fair Trade Foundation.
By setting up workers co operatives with people in the developing world, it enables people in those countries to grow food and earn more money than they would by working on a plantation run by Nestle or any other traditional corporation."

I'm rather neutral to the whole Fair Trade thing because I think it's benefits are massively overblown. It simply will not scale and so while it helps a handful of individual farmers doesn't really do anything to alleviate poverty in those countries on a larger scale. That said some of the best single source chocolate comes from fair trade sources and I have no qualms whatsoever spending a few extra bucks to get them.


"The Grameen Bank.
By supplying micro credit to people in the third world, mostly women , they enable people to start businesses and make income of their own ."

I don't know anything about this particular agency but I love the idea of micro credit and see it as a perfect libertarian solution to helping the poor in 3rd world countries, however even here the benefit is largely overstated because the entire concept is based on the flawed idea that most poor people will make excellent entrepreneurs.

"Trade Justice.
The world's poor take their goods to market. but the tariffs, quotas, commodity prices and such are all set out by the World Trade Organisation, that meets in New York. The UK can afford to send many delegates to the USA to argue their case and speak up for them and their industries. Sadly, the people of Ghana cannot afford to send anyone. like many developing nations, their voice is never heard at the trade conferences were decisions involving them get made."

Is this an actual organization or just an ideal? If it is an organization what do they do, if it is an ideal then hey welcome to the free trade club. Not that managed trade crap they peddle at the WTO and call free trade but actual free trade with no barriers, quota's, or Tarrifs whatsoever. This is afterall the most libertarian of positions.

I support...

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

I purchase fair trade chocolate and coffee. It does not cost more than slave trade chocolate or sweatshop coffee but it tastes better.

Is it ignorance or disingenuity.

[montecristo.livejournal.com]

...yet I don't hear Mises complain when the US government subsidises the American Cotton growing corporations and allows them to dump subsidised cotton on the world market that kills local competition in developing countries stone dead.

Well, you know, it would help if you actually did some reading on their site before condemning them. What the Austrian Economists advocate is no trade restrictions at all. Period. Free trade is just that: free. It does not need nine hundred page manuals full of legislation that enacts bureaucracies to "manage" the trade that is supposedly "free." Free trade is neither subsidized at taxpayer expense nor forbidden by government regulation. The only role for which government even minimally claim justification is the adjudication of contract disputes between trading parties.

If you're going to claim that the Austrian Economics School or the Ludwig von Mises Institute advocates anything other than this, please cite a reference where you got this idea, otherwise I am inclined to believe that you are spreading hearsay or else engaging in active smearing.

The Mises Institute doesn't mind an easy ride for the rich it seems , but wants to discourage us from helping the poor.

Just who is "us," Comrade, and exactly how do you mean to be "helping the poor"? You really lost the thread of your narrative at that point. To which of the organizations mentioned above that point a are you referring when you use the word "us" in the sentence quoted? What exactly was the objection offered in the name of LvMI and what were their own words and who wrote them? If you're going to make an accusation try citing some evidence so that people can check it out for themselves. If you're talking about "helping the poor" using taxes taken from others then no, "you" aren't helping the poor; you're stealing and diverting other people's wealth toward helping the poor. Charity and philanthropy only count when it comes out of your own pocket. You don't get credit for spending money that is not yours.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

I would say that in thier own ways both NGOs and Corporatism are the "New Imperialism" and that niether is the complete devil or angel that they are portrayed as.

While there are certainly many well intentioned indivduals there are also vested interests in prolonging the problem. Any one remember HTPCL's old "Economic Hitman" posts? They don't all work for the CIA or Nestle.

[harry-beast.livejournal.com]

I'm sure that many of the members and supporters of NGOs are well intentioned, but let's not put them on too high a pedestal. Amnesty International, for example, has been criticized for alleged bias and ideological agendas, along with other issues. A balanced viewpoint cuts both ways. Free trade may have marketed tobacco in Africa, but it has also lifted millions out of poverty in all parts of the world, and continues to offer the promise of a better life for people in the developing world. It sure beats protectionism.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

Stop reading the mises institute, that shit will rot your brain.