[identity profile] blue-mangos.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
Let's try this again, as I feel it is an important matter to discuss.

America stands almost alone without legislation for paid maternity leave. American mothers, under the Family and Medical Leave Act are allowed only 12 weeks of unpaid leave before returning to work. To make it worse, those who work for companies with fewer than 50 employees or have worked less than 1,250 hours in the past year are not covered under the Act and are entitled to no time off. While some companies have provided their own paid maternity leave policies these jobs are scarce. A 2008 report found that only 16% of companies with more than 100 workers provide 100% paid maternity leave for the legislated period. Women can not rely on the goodwill of their employers, legislation is sorely needed to ensure the rights of working mothers.

Almost every other country in the world, including Afghanistan, Somalia, Cuba and Iraq have paid maternity leave legislation of some sort. Most nations have laws providing for time off ranging from 14 to 96 weeks in a mixture of paid and unpaid time and varying levels of pay. In the Czech Republic mothers can take up to 4 years off, paid for by the state. Sweden provides 16 months, with the cost shared between the government and the employer at 80% of the the mothers salary. The UK laws provide for 39 weeks paid, by the employer with an additional 13 weeks unpaid. Canada provides 52 weeks, paid for by the government at 55% of your salary with an additional 35 weeks of parental leave to be shared with your partner, covered under our Employment Insurance program.

The benefits of maternity leave are vast for both the mother and child. Mothers without maternity leave or shorter periods are, not surprisingly, more likely to become depressed. Returning to work after childbirth makes breastfeeding, with all it's health benefits, all but impossible. Studies have shown that fewer than 12 weeks maternity leave have behavioral effects on the child in the long term. They have lower cognitive test scores, reach milestones later and exhibit behavioral problems as they age. As they reach school age lower tests scores are noted. There are even results being shown in new studies in the field of epigenetics that may prove that early social interaction influences the marks that effect serotonin levels which may lead to adult depression. Longer maternity leaves have been shown to decrease early childhood mortality rates due to better monitoring of the child's health or accident prevention. These benefits clearly demonstrate the the short and long term beneficial effects of longer maternity leaves for the betterment of society.

Many of you probably believe the government should not be forced to pay maternity leave salaries. However if you look at the programs in place all around the world you can see that this is not mandatory. There are programs ranging from full state paid, payment divided between the state and the employer or full employer paid. Any of these are acceptable. What is not acceptable is to continue to force American mothers to choose between bonding with their child and making money to cover the needs of their families.
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(no subject)

Date: 25/6/11 14:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pastorlenny.livejournal.com
Early childhood development is not a huge social concern. I mean, why do you think we have prisons?

(no subject)

Date: 25/6/11 14:28 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chessdev.livejournal.com
To a point, I agree with you -- we should have some type of safety net in place if we can.

HOWEVER, you are also suggesting that someone who has worked for less than a year at a company be able to be gone for more than 3 months while being paid to do.

You are also comparing different systems where health care costs are handled by the government in varying levels -- which allow the employers "obligation" in your scenario to be somewhat less without leaving people financially devastated.


So again, I agree with you to a point - but not sure I agree with the examples used, nor that the economic benefit of doing this has been fully articulated.

(no subject)

Date: 25/6/11 14:29 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chessdev.livejournal.com
It's not that it's not a concern -- it's that it hasnt been quantified in a way that people can understand would justify the costs.

(no subject)

Date: 25/6/11 14:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-swaggerd.livejournal.com
We just need an entire system reform for healthcare. It sucks ass here.

(no subject)

Date: 25/6/11 14:54 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aelf.livejournal.com
"Returning to work after childbirth makes breastfeeding, with all it's health benefits, all but impossible."

I hate to see that ignorance propagated. Returning to work after childbirth does not make breastfeeding "all but impossible." There are a number of things one can do to continue the nursing relationship & while in some jobs it is exceedingly difficult or even impossible, that is not true across the board. Improvements can be made in supporting nursing mothers independent of increasing maternity leave; I personally don't want them inextricably linked because it's too easy to think the only support necessary for a nursing mother is for her to stay home. Some of us want to return to work.

I also get frustrated by the "bonding" comments. Mothers can't bond with their babies if they aren't caring for them 24/7? Really, truly? What about fathers? Fathers need to bond with their children, right? So shouldn't you also be arguing for them to stay home for N time period after their children are born?

While I think you have some good thoughts, so much of what you said feeds into the "mothers are fully responsible for everything about their children. If they don't stay with them constantly, they won't bond. If they don't nurse them exclusively, they'll be sickly and stupid and mentally ill." We don't need more of that.

(no subject)

Date: 25/6/11 14:56 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrbogey.livejournal.com
I don't see it as a zero sum game with a binary dichotomy.

Because childhood development with the parents is important, it doesn't mean that businesses or taxpayers ought to be paying the bill for it.

(no subject)

Date: 25/6/11 14:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrbogey.livejournal.com
I don't see why the original post was deleted.

(no subject)

Date: 25/6/11 15:02 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chessdev.livejournal.com
But if the economic benefits aren't articulated in dollars, then it will be hard to rally support to get people to agree to the increas in costs and taxes that are sure to follow.

Ultimately (and sadly) it comes down to the almighty dollar and what people are actually getting for their money...

(no subject)

Date: 25/6/11 15:10 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dwer.livejournal.com
I presume this is because a large segment of the government simply wants those women to remain at home permanently. You don't need a job, you have a child!

(no subject)

Date: 25/6/11 15:12 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pastorlenny.livejournal.com
I know. We should be paying for prisons instead.

(no subject)

Date: 25/6/11 15:17 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrbogey.livejournal.com
I don't advocate prisons as a primary good. I advocate them only as a response to the large scale criminal population.

(no subject)

Date: 25/6/11 15:19 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] korean-guy-01.livejournal.com
I haven't received sufficient proof why I should bear any cost (whether that be taxation, less benefits from a determined pool of employee compensation from my employer, and/or increased cost of goods) to support other people's decision to have children.

(no subject)

Date: 25/6/11 15:22 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peamasii.livejournal.com
Why should it be so difficult to estimate the benefits to society in the US? Here in the Netherlands maternity, breastfeeding and childcare are promoted as serious business. Maternity leave is minimum 16 weeks full paid from social security funds (some companies will offer extra time), and breastfeeding is necessarily facilitated in all employment. Child allowance is also given to each family, regardless of income, about 1000 EUR/ year for each child until they reach the age of 18. Childcare is private, expensive and usually subsidized by 50% or more in working families. Mothers with young children have the legal right to limit working hours to part-time status without getting fired or layed off. I think if it was so unfeasibly difficult it wouldn't be the norm in European countries, but in fact many have even more favorable benefits compared to the NL.

(no subject)

Date: 25/6/11 15:29 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] existentme.livejournal.com
"I don't advocate prisons as a primary good. I advocate them only as a response to the large scale criminal populizaation."

/np

(no subject)

Date: 25/6/11 15:30 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] existentme.livejournal.com
Crap, I actually only needed two letters, not three.

/fail

(no subject)

Date: 25/6/11 15:33 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrbogey.livejournal.com
Most criminals aren't in jail solely due to criminalization.

(no subject)

Date: 25/6/11 15:36 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] korean-guy-01.livejournal.com
Focus on the first part of my comment.

(no subject)

Date: 25/6/11 15:38 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] existentme.livejournal.com
I think a significant enough of them are to warrant the concession. After all, there has to be something to join the incarceration rate of the US with the rest of the civilized world.

(no subject)

Date: 25/6/11 15:41 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pastorlenny.livejournal.com
Things only have value if they can be accurately quantified in monetary terms. Public policy, life, and indeed the very state of being a consciousness in the cosmos can be fully reduced to economics.

I thought this was intuitively obvious.
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