On being a feminist
14/6/11 13:05I am a feminist. No surprise to anyone here I know, but in this age where feminist is being seen more and more as a dirty word, where we’re seen as man-haters, as screaming harpies, as ball-busters, I feel it is more important than ever to proudly self-identify as one wherever possible. For you see, as a group, we are none of these things. We are women who believe in the radical concept that we have the right to be treated equally. We believe we have autonomy over our bodies, over our lives, over our choices. We believe we have voices and opinions that we deserve to share with the world and with each other. We will not sit back on the sidelines and allow men to take the lead, nor do we expect the men to sit back, or to ‘apologize for being men’. We want to work alongside them, as full equals, to change the world.
The feminist movement is traditionally broken up into 3 parts, which I will briefly outline here for educational purposes. Please note, for those of you already familiar with the subject matter that for the sake of brevity I am offering a very condensed version, I will be skipping a lot of nuances. If anyone wishes these can be discussed in the comments.
First-wave feminism began in the 19th and early 20th century, focusing primarily on the women’s suffrage movement. Women today owe a great debt to the prominent members of the movement, such as Susan B. Anthony, Margaret Fuller and others, as they paved the way for women to be seen as deserving of the same rights and responsibilities as men.
Second-wave feminism refers to the time beginning in the 60s, focusing not only legal inequalities but also general women’s issues such as family, the workplace and control over reproductive rights. It is said it came about in response to the treatment of women in post-WWII, where after many women had gone to work and stepped up in the absence of so many men, were expected to ‘get back into our place’ and submit under a blatantly patriarchal society, as evidenced by many of the popular TV shows at the time. Betty Frieden’s book ‘The Feminine Mystique’ focused on the inequity of this society and pointed out that to limit women in this way was a waste of female potential. 2nd wave feminism is mainly seen as a great success having led to The Equal Pay Act, Affirmative Action rights for women, the illegalization of marital rape, Canada’s Human Rights Act, and Roe vs. Wade among other legal victories.
Third-wave feminism, the current wave, which I am a part of, came about as a backlash against second-wave. It began in the early 80s and continues on to today. We did not wish to be a part of our mother’s feminism which was seen as failing to encompass all women, regardless of race or sexual orientation. Many of us also embrace the concept of sex-positivity including porn and sex work, an area 2nd wave feminism vigorously fought against. We have fought to continue the work of earlier women with sexual harassment laws, greater representation for women in business and government and to maintain and even improve on reproductive rights. Some are fighting to reclaim derogatory terms as was discussed here last week. We are often criticized for lacking a single goal, a decisive issue to fight for, for we believe in allowing every woman to define feminism for herself, whether that be in the workplace or in the home as a wife and mother. While a great deal of the work towards equality has already been achieved, and I greatly respect the women who fought to achieve this, to allow me the freedom I have today, not all women have reached this point and this is why feminism is still a valid notion, one that must continue to adapt to a changing world.
I feel it will soon be time for a fourth-wave movement, for the younger generation to step up and take on the challenge. I fear in part for what it will become for through my eyes many young girls (not all of course) no longer wish to have anything to do with feminism. I see them viewing feminism as unnecessary and too militant. I see them failing to embrace their sexuality as its own important concept, but instead as an offering to men. I see them so accepting of feminist ideals as part of their lives that they no longer feel the need to fight for them. This is a mistake. If we allow ourselves to become complacent, those privileges we have fought for could backslide. It is important to not only remain vigilant but to continue to strive towards full equality, especially in business and government. I also feel that the new wave will need to accept the offering of men as allies, for men today are in a unique position to help, many having grown up with mothers either as part of the movement, or having benefited from it, while still maintaining their privilege. It would be foolish to turn down such a valuable contribution out of pride. We need to no longer view ourselves as separate but equal, but simply as equal.
However, the next wave is not mine to shape. It belongs to the new and future generation of women. All I can do is sit back and watch as it grows and adapts and hope it brings positive changes to women. All I can do is hope that one day I will no longer need to identify myself as a feminist, as a champion of women’s rights, as all of the battles will have finally be won.
(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 17:14 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 18:25 (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 17:44 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 18:29 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 17:45 (UTC)No, I lied.
(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 18:29 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 17:48 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 18:30 (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 18:31 (UTC)Women compose something like 50% of the population of the whole world, yet last time I looked, they earned 10% of the world's income and owned a mere 1% of its property.
Me- I think this is a problem that needs to be addressed.
The second wave did contain a lot of stuff I could not agree with. We have photographic evidence of women taking part in rallies about Domestic Violence, and one woman is waving a placard saying "Men are the problem ".
Er, no. I grew up with domestic violence. The way I see it, the problem was not that my dad was a man, the problem was that he was a violent drunkard, and a loser.
I think there ws a genuine ' anti male sentiment in the air back in the 70's when I was young , but this was brought on by centuries of oppression, and I felt at the time that it would take generations to remove, but it seems to be that the women taking their place in the workplace at present are people whose experience of oppression is not so direct and are thus more open to ideas.
The more progressive political parties in the UK accept the idea that women can and should take key roles, and when it comes to international affairs, accept that women are over represented among the world's poor.
The fact that mainstream parties can take this idea on board, that women and children are special cases that have needs particular to them, is also a positive thing, I reckon.
But the problem for women in the Western World is not about legislation or literacy, it issimply about social attitudes.
We can maybe start calling it "parental leave" and offering it to everybody. this might help women getting up the ladder iin carreer term.
But getting women into high earning careers like engineering and finance instead of teaching and nursing which are lower paid options - I think we need to see bigger shifts in social attitudes for that to happen. and maybe in 10-20 yrs, we will.
(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 19:03 (UTC)And yes, you've touched on something I didn't even mention. For feminism to grow and for certain attitudes to be abolished we need to break down gender roles and start seeing certain ideas as neutral.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 18:46 (UTC)Just thought I should point out that "Back in the 70's" was just about 2 "generations" ago at this point :-)
(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 19:55 (UTC)Even so, things are moving on, change has been made,so I'm glad about that.
(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 19:05 (UTC)And thank you for being relatively serious and easy-going about this topic ;)
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 19:21 (UTC)I wish I had somebody like you in my family, in which "feminist" is a dirty word and women are not really allowed to speak their mind.
Well...as if this would stop me. I'm sick of women being criticised, only because they stand up for themselves and speak their mind!
I have a brother who - sometimes - can be an arrogant bastard.
I remember one conversation we had, in which he said: "Well, women should be happy. They have it better now than in the past."
I felt like strangling him.
(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 19:56 (UTC)I can be your honorary big sister if you'd like ;)
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:No covenant between lions and men
From:(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 19:42 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 23:24 (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 19:48 (UTC)If we go by what feminism actually is, and not just what idiots think it is, I'd say 99% of this community, including myself, are feminists.
(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 19:59 (UTC)I don't know about 99% of the community, but yes, there are some excellent male allies in this community who I am proud to recognize as such. You can now be one of them!
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 20:01 (UTC)I fear in part for what it will become for through my eyes many young girls (not all of course) no longer wish to have anything to do with feminism.
I wonder how much of it is a rejection of the goals feminism and how much is a rejection of the label "feminist." It saddens me that so many people see feminist as a dirty word and an association they don't want to make, and in a way I think it's a failure of the women's movement for letting right-wing media define us shrill, humorless man-haters.
The only way I see that changing is for people, both women and men, being unafraid to call themselves feminists and show that the movement is about equal rights and social justice and not the ridiculous stereotypes that are often shown to be representative.
(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 20:12 (UTC)Uh oh! Blaming the victim!
Which is a roundabout way of saying that actually, I agree with your comment. Feminism has faced vigorous opposition that has been very effective in creating a deep misunderstanding of the movement, even among some folks who conceive of themselves as feminists.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 20:14 (UTC)Everybody knows about the old idea of the "family wage" and how men were paid more for the same work due to that. The first notion of pay equity was to stamp that out, and in the public service up here they succeeded. One of the reasons that campaign worked was that it's a straightforward case to make: namely that doing job X should result in the same outcome regardless of gender.
So, victory was had. People were happy. The next thing you know, some feminists start saying that they don't have pay equity, using a redefined version of pay equity for "equal pay for work of equal value." The public looks confused, because how do you compare totally unrelated job X to job Y and determine that one of them should be brought up to the same payscale as the other? Well, they found a way involving a convoluted bureaucratic process and a committee that figures it out, which just about always determines that female dominated job Y is "equal value" to male dominated job X and thus deserves a raise.
The Federal Government went along with that and instituted it for unionized employees. Another victory! So what happens next? The union gets shady. They negotiate a contract with the government for various payscales for various jobs. It's voted in. They immediately turn around and challenge it under the pay equity rules, resulting in raises for people before the ink on the collective agreement is even dry.
Now people are getting annoyed. They then try to get the government to force this same scheme on private companies. The government balks, both because of how they keep getting burned by it and because of massive public opposition to having a government committee go into various private workplaces and determine that some job deserves the same pay as your average mechanical engineer despite the supply of workers drastically outstripping demand (unlike mechanical engineers).
The whole problem here is that once the public starts feeling like every demand that gets met simply morphs into a new demand, they lose patience with the whole movement. Once that happens you get a government that feels emboldened to start rolling things back, like the one we have now which changed the pay equity law to strip some of these powers in 2009.
(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 20:26 (UTC)You want the same money as a guy doing the same job as you? Well, you pass equal pay legislation .
You want more women driving trains? You have to persuade women to apply in the first place. You have to see to it that women get changing rooms and toilets in a workplace that has 'train driver' all mapped out as a male job and not one for both genders.
But if you really want women to get into the cab, you have to face the fact that it is not as nice as working in a shop, opr doing shcool work , or an office job. you have to face the fact that driving trains is not as glammed up as making records. Or as easy as being a ticket clerk, and so gets more women involved.
Even so, making the space to get women in will be a big improvement, i reckon, but society has a long way to go yet.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 20:23 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 20:27 (UTC)I'm not being ironic-skeptical, I'm being genuinely surprised here.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 21:06 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 22:45 (UTC)A poor characterisation of feminism...
From:(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 22:46 (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 22:49 (UTC)The 3rd wave, however, seem to be the ones who want to rip my head off if I ever disagree with them about anything. Because my being a guy is more important than any actual points I might make. I mean, have you SEEN sf_drama?
This is rather frustrating as I'm all for equal rights. But I do think the modern femnist movement has let the radicals have too much of a voice and that's pushing away and turning off people of both genders who otherwise would be supporters.
(no subject)
Date: 14/6/11 23:23 (UTC)I am very sorry you have had bad experiences, but please do not paint all feminists with the same brush.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:What about Grizzly Mama feminism?
Date: 15/6/11 00:49 (UTC)Re: What about Grizzly Mama feminism?
Date: 15/6/11 00:54 (UTC)Re: What about Grizzly Mama feminism?
From:Re: What about Grizzly Mama feminism?
From:Re: What about Grizzly Mama feminism?
From:Re: What about Grizzly Mama feminism?
From:Re: What about Grizzly Mama feminism?
From:Re: What about Grizzly Mama feminism?
From:(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 01:39 (UTC)Many of us also embrace the concept of sex-positivity including porn and sex work... Many, but not all. That's why there's still a mob of feminists who bad-mouth women who choose to work at Hooter's or become strippers.
I've come to the conclusion that with current feminism, there's feminists (non-threatening, non-political agenda) and then there's what I call 'feminasties,' (militant, rage-agenda, ball-pulverizing types). I'd prefer getting to know more members of the former class much more than the latter.
(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 02:04 (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 04:22 (UTC)This would be funny if it weren't so predictable.
(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 07:54 (UTC)Reading the last few dozen TP posts and noticing the same thing happens all the time doesn't make you Nostradamus.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 04:39 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 07:16 (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 13:05 (UTC)And yes as stated above while we shouldn't judge by what goes on in places like sf_drama I understand how certain people will see it and wonder if it's really about equality. Some of sf_d's members do a great disservice to their own movement. People shouldn't claim to oppose sexism while being sexist themselves, makes it hard for anyone to take them seriously.
It reminds me of what my fellow atheists are going through. I feel many of the statements of certain prominent atheists only serve to convince theists to dig in their heels instead of giving our views serious consideration. Yet when I suggest this in atheist communities I'm often shouted down. "We've played nice too long, it's time for THEM to play nice", etc.
I think the key is to reach out instead of lash out, and yet I recognize the need to be strong and not roll over to the powers that be, either. It's a balance that's hard to reach at times. To me it's not about approval, it's about acceptance.
Keep up the good fight. I think feminism has really hit its stride with the third wave and there will be no stopping it. Equality is inevitable, although we still have a long way to go.
(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 13:52 (UTC)Why did you say this?
(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 13:59 (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From: