Rape Logic

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

"Mr. Anderson, you allege that on the night of 14 December 2010, the defendant robbed you on the corner of 24th St. and Broadway Ave. Am I correct in this?"

"Yes. He robbed me. Took my wallet."

"He took your wallet, Mr. Anderson? You mean, surely, that he tore your pants off and physically removed your wallet with his own hands?"

"Well no, it wasn't quite like that..."

"Well what was it like, Mr. Anderson?"

"He told me to give him his wallet and threatened me."

"And did you hand over your wallet, Mr. Anderson?"

"Well... well yes I did."

"So you willingly removed your own wallet and transferred possession of said wallet to the defendant?"

"No, he robbed me! He said he had a gun!"

"Did he, Mr. Anderson? Did he really say that?"

"Yes!"

"My client denies any such thing. What do you have to say?"

"He said he had a gun, and to give him his wallet."

"And did the defendant touch or harm you in any way?"

"Well... no... nothing happened like that... I was afraid!"

"Did you tell him that?"

"What? No! What kind of question is that?"

"So here we are left to believe only your word, Mr. Anderson? Your word that you freely handed over your wallet to the defendant, with no signs of violence, no evidence of any untoward actions, and yet you insist on wasting our time with this?"

"I was robbed!"

"That is precisely the issue under question, Mr. Anderson. Simply repeating yourself doesn't help. Mr. Anderson... were you drinking on the night of 14 December 2010?"

"Well yes... I was coming home from a pub I was at with my friends."

"Really, Mr. Anderson. How much did you drink?"

"Well I don't know really... a few beers, a couple shots... there was a birthday..."

"Ah, so it would be safe to say that you were suffering from, let us say, impaired faculties?"

"I know what happened to me!"

"Do you, Mr. Anderson? I can have an expert testify before the court that even moderate alcohol consumption greatly affects memory."

"This is insane!"

"No, Mr. Anderson, this is Conservative Court."

Comments

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

That's the opinion of the person writing the article. Rape is rape - it's all forcible. Do I need to ask the question a third time?

[prog-expat.livejournal.com]

Not all rape is forcible (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/forcible). Date-rape drugs remove the need to use force, and intimidation can be quite effective, as the OP demonstrates. Intimidation ≠ forcible, as it is the threat of force or violence, not force or violence itself.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

That's all force. Anything that's not consensual is forced.

[silver-chipmunk.livejournal.com]

Then why did the Republicans find it necessary to try attempt to limit abortion to "forcible rape"? Logic, please. If you are "limiting" something, there is something excluded.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Logically speaking, since all rape is forceable...

[http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/]

Raping an unconscious victim doesn't require any force whatsoever, unless you define force as "doing something I don't want you to do," which is inexact at best.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

That's a scary thing to believe.

[http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/]

Not really. Just because it isn't force in a strict sense doesn't necessarily affect the ethics of the situation. It just means people should use exact language when describing crimes.

[http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/]

In fact, the legal system itself makes this distinction in the sense that people are charged with the crime of "Rape by force or fear" (I think to distinguish between statutory rape). So clearly there are other ways to rape other than by force.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

logically speaking, if all rape is "forceable", you don't have to use the word "forceable" to describe it. You only use an adjective if you're attempting to draw a distinction between two things.

Red boat. Blue boat. If all boats are blue, you don't say "blue boat", you say "boat".

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Because there's such a thing as "statutory rape" which is not "forcible". And they weren't limiting abortion, they were limiting federal money. It doesn't help your argument when you're inaccurate.

[prog-expat.livejournal.com]

So you consider fraud (http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=90186100) a form of force?

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Yes.

[prog-expat.livejournal.com]

Your idiosyncratic definition of force is not shared by lawmakers, considering that theft by fraud and violent robbery are treated under different sections of the penal code, thereby making rape by deception non-forcible rape according to legal usage. This is done for good reason: crime by trickery specifically exists to circumvent the need to use violence. They are separate because one does not actually involve force/violence.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

I don't see how it's idiosyncratic, but okay.

[prog-expat.livejournal.com]

Trickery as a form of force is quite idiosyncratic.

[usekh.livejournal.com]

Because almost no-one else including the legal system agrees with your definition?

[farchivist.livejournal.com]

Legal system says no. Therefore, your opinion is incorrect and needs to be changed on basis of factual evidence provided by current laws.

[farchivist.livejournal.com]

Anything that's not consensual is forced.

That is considered by many people, including those admitted to law and justice, to be an opinion only. Or that consent is implied; that being married is consent enough or being unconscious is consent enough. I am shocked and surprised you are unaware of that.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

Actually, that would still be forcible rape under the law as consent was not given nor could it be inferred. Any time an action is taken to bypass or ignore consent then it is forcible rape.

Non-forcible rape is generally defined as any time when consent can not be given as a defense. In those cases, the state need only prove sex took place. For forcible rape, the state needs to prove sex took place and consent was not given.