[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
I find it interesting given the influence this man had on the modern Christian Right to note what his views were on the "universal brotherhood of man" and whether or not God's idea of equal rights had or did not have a racial bar.

 

"If Chief Justice Warren and his associates had known God's word and had desired to do the Lord's will, I am quite confident that the 1954 decision would never have been made," Falwell boomed from above his congregation in Lynchburg. "The facilities should be separate. When God has drawn a line of distinction, we should not attempt to cross that line."

Falwell's jeremiad continued: "The true Negro does not want integration.... He realizes his potential is far better among his own race." Falwell went on to announce that integration "will destroy our race eventually. In one northern city," he warned, "a pastor friend of mine tells me that a couple of opposite race live next door to his church as man and wife."

As pressure from the civil rights movement built during the early 1960s, and President Lyndon Johnson introduced sweeping civil rights legislation, Falwell grew increasingly conspiratorial. He enlisted with J. Edgar Hoover to distribute FBI manufactured propaganda against the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. and publicly denounced the 1964 Civil Rights Act as "civil wrongs."

In a 1964 sermon, "Ministers and Marchers," Falwell attacked King as a Communist subversive. After questioning "the sincerity and intentions of some civil rights leaders such as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Mr. James Farmer, and others, who are known to have left-wing associations," Falwell declared, "It is very obvious that the Communists, as they do in all parts of the world, are taking advantage of a tense situation in our land, and are exploiting every incident to bring about violence and bloodshed."

Falwell concluded, "Preachers are not called to be politicians, but soul winners."

http://www.thenation.com/article/agent-intolerance


And a reminder of what Governor Barbour called something that "wasn't so bad" in its own words:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/images/docpage-citizens_council1.jpg

 

This reminds me of how the Southern Baptist Convention, where what Alexander Stephens called the "cornerstone" of (Southern) society, "that the white man is superior to the black man" was considered official doctrine into 1995 is suddenly and completely confused as to why anyone could possibly see racism where it is concerned. I'm thus going to ask a simple question, one that probably straddles the idea of religion and politics and also a few other issues: which view of God's will in the 1960s was correct? Martin Luther King's Mine Eyes Have Seen the Glory vision where "the descendants of slaves and of slaveowners" are "treated according to the content of their character, not the color of their skin" or Falwell's view that ": "The true Negro does not want integration.... He realizes his potential is far better among his own race."

Whose God is the real God? They both alike see in the same Scriptures two incompatible messages when they are both alike from a Denomination that takes the belief that someone reading the same Bible should come to the one true message God preaches. They also use alike the same Scriptures to condemn each other. Who is the voice of God, and who is not?

1995? ??

Date: 10/2/11 13:09 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brockulfsen.livejournal.com
For those of us not in the US does anyone have a cite for the official doctrine above?

Re: 1995? ??

From: [identity profile] mijopo.livejournal.com - Date: 10/2/11 14:36 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 1995? ??

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Re: 1995? ??

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Re: 1995? ??

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Re: 1995? ??

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"on the books"

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Date: 10/2/11 14:26 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lai-choi-san.livejournal.com
Your last paragraph illustrates the reasons why the concept of secularism has been created.

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Date: 10/2/11 19:48 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anosognosia.livejournal.com
Seems instead like the reason why critical thinking was created.

Whereas secularism seems more closely related to the development of the concepts of church and state.

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Date: 10/2/11 14:29 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pastorlenny.livejournal.com
It's always funny to me when you talk about Southern American Baptists.
Edited Date: 10/2/11 14:30 (UTC)

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Date: 10/2/11 14:43 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mybodymycoffin.livejournal.com
"CHRISTIAN LOVE AND SEGREGATION"
"NEGROES TAKING OVER"
"Did you know that 'bigotry' and 'hate-mongering' flourish among birds? Why, of course!"

I'll stir the pot: Taking a New Testament view, we could say Falwell serves the White god Mammon and his chosen caste (the White man), whereas King served "the least of these", which makes him a truer servant of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Falwell can blanket whatever he says and does with whatever scripture he wants, but it's not going to save him from being accountable for encouraging evil not merely in his heart but in the hearts of others. His only avenue of salvation would be sincere repentance and the grace of God, but God is the best of judges.

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Date: 10/2/11 16:10 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rasilio.livejournal.com
Given how often Yahweh/Jehovah/Elohim's holy book speaks in favor of slavery, not to mention it's constant exhortations to the Jews to keep their culture separate from those surrounding them I'll have to think that Falwell's reading what the more scripturally correct and closer to that sky daddies supposed views.

Personally though I prefer Luthers vision, even if it was based on a flawed reading of the Bible.

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Date: 10/2/11 16:12 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pastorlenny.livejournal.com
Those damn Jews and their damn slavery.

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Date: 10/2/11 19:55 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anosognosia.livejournal.com
I seem to recall we've been over this before (http://community.livejournal.com/talk_politics/861207.html?thread=64851735#t64851735) and it turned out that you were mistaken (http://community.livejournal.com/talk_politics/861207.html?thread=64872215#t64872215).

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Date: 10/2/11 16:55 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] paedraggaidin.livejournal.com
I think the Church, being made up of flawed human beings, has been a good mirror through the ages, reflecting the divisions and debates of society in general. 150 years ago, slavery divided the American Church (most denominations of it, at least), and 50 years ago it was civil rights for blacks. I could make the argument that in the 1990s it was the fear and uncertainty of a world where suddenly America's biggest rival was gone. Today it's civil rights for gays and, to some extent, women. These struggles play out in the Church just as they do in the country at large.

It's like my high school American history teacher told us, when everyone was pissed off at various Black Legend stories the book was teaching as fact (e.g. "oh god those Spaniards were just pure f'in evil!"): you can't project twentieth century values (twenty-first now...man I feel old) onto sixteenth century people. I think it works in decades, too: for the most part, the Church of 2011 is different from the Church of 1961, in practice, doctrine, theology, and demographics. I'm sure it'll be even more different in 2061. Even the most conservative denominations, the ones screaming about the sheer demonic horror of the gays (e.g. LDS, Southern Baptists, the wacky right-wing Episcopalians, and some of my fellow Catholics [of the Catholic League stripe]) are different, and will continue changing.

Pretty much the only Christians I can think of who really haven't changed that much since, say, 1611 are the old order Amish. And even they ride in buses and accept all major credit cards.

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Date: 10/2/11 19:46 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anosognosia.livejournal.com
You consider the Catholic League to be an example of Catholic culture? Notwithstanding the name, my understanding is that they have no connection to the church, and indeed have received several denouncements and general friction from local bishops.

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Date: 10/2/11 16:58 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chron-job.livejournal.com
> Whose God is the real God?

Neither.... obviously :)

God is an anthropomorphization of many things, and one of those things is moral rightness. That's why people who hate X presume God hates X, and people who want Y presume God want's why.

So, by asking us which the 'real' God is, all you're really doing is asking us what we think is right.

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Date: 10/2/11 19:43 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anosognosia.livejournal.com
"That's why people who hate X presume God hates X, and people who want Y presume God want's why."

This would be the case regardless of whether God is an anthropomorphization of many things, and one of those things is moral rightness. It's immediately given in the meaning of the terms used.

So this is not an example of "applying logic and reason to the discussion." Logic and reason would instead lead us to consider rational entailments between propositions as a basis for drawing conclusions.

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Date: 10/2/11 17:15 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] langostino.livejournal.com
This is relevant to the first comment thread, but I think you fail to understand how the SBC works. The SBC doesn't have doctrine as such. The 1995 resolution is not at all analogous to the changes made in 1978 to allow Blacks to enter the priesthood.

You seem to think (and correct me if I'm wrong) that some racist doctrines were put in place long ago, and remained in force until they were repealed by the 1995 resolution. This just doesn't make sense in the institutional structure of the SBC, though I can understand where the misunderstanding might come from if you view the SBC as analogous to the national ELCA, or the Vatican, or the Episcopal Church in America. You might take a look at section XIV of the Baptist Faith and Message to understand the SBC stance on hierarchy and doctrinal decisions.

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Date: 10/2/11 18:42 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meus-ovatio.livejournal.com
Who is the voice of God, and who is not?
Neither. I mean, it's pretty simple. They're just people. I mean, they probably have normal people names with normal people jobs and do normal people things. I don't think any of that has anything to do with being the voice of God.

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Date: 10/2/11 18:55 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malasadas.livejournal.com
Jerry Falwell was a loathesome sack of sanctimonious, bigotted shit.

In other news: Water is wet. Elvis is dead. And the Black Eyed Peas' halftime show sucked mega-donkey balls.

Image
Edited Date: 10/2/11 19:00 (UTC)

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Date: 10/2/11 19:13 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] paedraggaidin.livejournal.com
Reminds me of a joke I heard once....

A man dies and goes to Heaven. St. Peter says "hey! Welcome to Heaven, let me show you around."

So, St. Peter leads the man around Heaven, which is filled with joyous singing people. "There are the Catholics," he points out, "and there are the Methodists, and the Presbyterians are over there."

Then they come to a quiet, secluded corner of Heaven with a room whose doors are closed. St. Peter whispers to the man "shhh...be very quiet. Those are the Southern Baptists, and they don't know anyone else is here."

With apologies to [livejournal.com profile] underlankers. :P

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Date: 10/2/11 20:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com
Whose God is the real God?

Dunno. Oral Roberts said he talked face-to-face with a 90ft. Jesus. That seems to be the record.

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Date: 10/2/11 22:21 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
Whose God is the real God?

Everyone knows it's Crom.

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Date: 11/2/11 19:40 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dukexmachismo.livejournal.com

Whose God is the real God?


And why do white racists tend to gravitate toward a mutant form of a Middle Eastern religion anyway? Shouldn't they practice a European religion, such as Odinism?

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