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talkpoliticsIt may suprise this community, and indeed most of the USA, to find that an enormous row has blown up in Britain over a soccer match.
Following a recent soccer match between Liverpool and Wolverhampton Wanderers (aka 'the Wolves'), the two top commentators for sky sports coverage were heard to make disparaging and sexist remarks. They were 'off air', but their mikes were still on - and the details of what was said emerged in the press, creaing a major storm in the media that has hit the front pages for several days.
The first person to be sacked as a result was Andy Gray, Sky's chief anchorman, but it has just emerged that his sidekick, Richard Keys, has also been forced to quit as a result of the incident.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/
The controversy is centred on the fact that during the game, Liverpool scored a goal, and the question arose as to whether or not they were 'off side' - now there is a rule that says basically that a player must have a defending player between them and the goalmouth when the ball is kicked.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/rules_and_equipment/4993924.stm
EYA: John Cleeese explains it in plain and simple English - sorta...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmC9JOcaofI
The Linesman may indicate to the referee that 'offside' is committed by raising a flag, but in this case, the Linesman did not - the linesman gave that the ball was in play and the goal was allowed. What infuriated Andy Gray, apparently, was that the 'linesman' in this case, was a woman.
After the match, he was heard, 'off air' but still 'on the mike', to make certain allegations
1) that the goal should have been disallowed
2)that the lineswoman did not understand the offside rule
£) that the FA (the Football Association), the governing body who run the game, were wrong to allow women to officiate any football match - because women just don't understand the rules of football.
Now, the controversy is also heightened by the following facts
1) The technology for slo-mo replays exists. The referree and other officials may not consult it, but the fans watching at home can see and judge for themselves.
2) This was a very tight call - but the camera clearly shows that Ms Sian Massey, the Liineswoman, was absolutely and indisputably right to allow the goal - Liverpool were clearly onside !
3) This was only her second game as an official, but she showed herself to be physically fit, mentally alert and fully competant in knowing and interpreting the offside rule in this instance- unlike her male detractors in the commentory box.
The nation has been debating the issue - in the press and in bars and bus queues up and down the land. Opinion has divided into two camps with both men and women taking one of two positions:
A) That Andy Gray and his partner were both men of a certain age, and whatever their abilities as ex - footballers and now football pundits, they are just out of touch with the modern era. They were sexist clutzes, but there is no need to sack either of them - they have egg on their faces, and no real harm is done. Ms Massey is not screaming for their resignations, and anyone who is has got their panties in a wad over a silly remark that is no big deal. Women can afford to ignore this sort of thing, and let's be honest, slagging off the ref, the FA, and the other team manager and their players is all part and parcel of the game. Male referrees have accepted this and carried on regardless. Good for Sian Massey for treating it all with the contempt it deserves....
The B side is :-
"Hey, can you imagine what would happen if they slated someone like that who was black? Seriously, Soccer has fought an uphill struggle against racism and won the day - there is no way that sexists should be allowed to get away with it either. Both Gray and Keys are high profile and highly paid professionals - they are role models to younger people and should know better than go set such an appalling example. Ok, they didn't know they were still 'on the mike', but Sky really hs no alternative but to fire them both - they should not be allowed to make comments like that and go unpunished.
My own take here is that ii am on the Bs side.
It is alleged that someone on the inside is 'out to get them'- further tapes have been leaked on You tube, featuring Gray making lewd and sexist comments, and it would appear that this has forced Sky to go from merely suspending Gray for a limited period to firing him.
It is noted that Gray was once one of Britain's top players and was widely known for his analytical and tactical skills that came to the fore when he took to broadcasting and opened the game up to millions of new fans with his insider's knowledge. however, today , his career is in ruins.
Another consideration is that Sky is looking at the bottom line in sacking Gray. can it afford so controversial an anchor man any more? there may be no one else with the qualities to replace him, but keeping him on may prove to be very risky in terms of the company's image.
With both men and women taking both sides on the debate, the question is also raised about how real equality is in modern Britain - can women ignore these stupid remarks aimed at a female official? Should they just 'move on' , and thus gain the nation's respect as a whole, as Ms Sian Massey seems to be doing - or is there still a need to come down hard on sexism?
As I said, I think that acking them was the right thing to do. In the words of Alan Sugar, the business tycoon who is also running Tottenham Hotspurs, following the sacking of Andy Gray "I am glad that Sky has closed the door on sexism - they should now throw away the Keys".
Following a recent soccer match between Liverpool and Wolverhampton Wanderers (aka 'the Wolves'), the two top commentators for sky sports coverage were heard to make disparaging and sexist remarks. They were 'off air', but their mikes were still on - and the details of what was said emerged in the press, creaing a major storm in the media that has hit the front pages for several days.
The first person to be sacked as a result was Andy Gray, Sky's chief anchorman, but it has just emerged that his sidekick, Richard Keys, has also been forced to quit as a result of the incident.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/
The controversy is centred on the fact that during the game, Liverpool scored a goal, and the question arose as to whether or not they were 'off side' - now there is a rule that says basically that a player must have a defending player between them and the goalmouth when the ball is kicked.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/rules_and_equipment/4993924.stm
EYA: John Cleeese explains it in plain and simple English - sorta...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmC9JOcaofI
The Linesman may indicate to the referee that 'offside' is committed by raising a flag, but in this case, the Linesman did not - the linesman gave that the ball was in play and the goal was allowed. What infuriated Andy Gray, apparently, was that the 'linesman' in this case, was a woman.
After the match, he was heard, 'off air' but still 'on the mike', to make certain allegations
1) that the goal should have been disallowed
2)that the lineswoman did not understand the offside rule
£) that the FA (the Football Association), the governing body who run the game, were wrong to allow women to officiate any football match - because women just don't understand the rules of football.
Now, the controversy is also heightened by the following facts
1) The technology for slo-mo replays exists. The referree and other officials may not consult it, but the fans watching at home can see and judge for themselves.
2) This was a very tight call - but the camera clearly shows that Ms Sian Massey, the Liineswoman, was absolutely and indisputably right to allow the goal - Liverpool were clearly onside !
3) This was only her second game as an official, but she showed herself to be physically fit, mentally alert and fully competant in knowing and interpreting the offside rule in this instance- unlike her male detractors in the commentory box.
The nation has been debating the issue - in the press and in bars and bus queues up and down the land. Opinion has divided into two camps with both men and women taking one of two positions:
A) That Andy Gray and his partner were both men of a certain age, and whatever their abilities as ex - footballers and now football pundits, they are just out of touch with the modern era. They were sexist clutzes, but there is no need to sack either of them - they have egg on their faces, and no real harm is done. Ms Massey is not screaming for their resignations, and anyone who is has got their panties in a wad over a silly remark that is no big deal. Women can afford to ignore this sort of thing, and let's be honest, slagging off the ref, the FA, and the other team manager and their players is all part and parcel of the game. Male referrees have accepted this and carried on regardless. Good for Sian Massey for treating it all with the contempt it deserves....
The B side is :-
"Hey, can you imagine what would happen if they slated someone like that who was black? Seriously, Soccer has fought an uphill struggle against racism and won the day - there is no way that sexists should be allowed to get away with it either. Both Gray and Keys are high profile and highly paid professionals - they are role models to younger people and should know better than go set such an appalling example. Ok, they didn't know they were still 'on the mike', but Sky really hs no alternative but to fire them both - they should not be allowed to make comments like that and go unpunished.
My own take here is that ii am on the Bs side.
It is alleged that someone on the inside is 'out to get them'- further tapes have been leaked on You tube, featuring Gray making lewd and sexist comments, and it would appear that this has forced Sky to go from merely suspending Gray for a limited period to firing him.
It is noted that Gray was once one of Britain's top players and was widely known for his analytical and tactical skills that came to the fore when he took to broadcasting and opened the game up to millions of new fans with his insider's knowledge. however, today , his career is in ruins.
Another consideration is that Sky is looking at the bottom line in sacking Gray. can it afford so controversial an anchor man any more? there may be no one else with the qualities to replace him, but keeping him on may prove to be very risky in terms of the company's image.
With both men and women taking both sides on the debate, the question is also raised about how real equality is in modern Britain - can women ignore these stupid remarks aimed at a female official? Should they just 'move on' , and thus gain the nation's respect as a whole, as Ms Sian Massey seems to be doing - or is there still a need to come down hard on sexism?
As I said, I think that acking them was the right thing to do. In the words of Alan Sugar, the business tycoon who is also running Tottenham Hotspurs, following the sacking of Andy Gray "I am glad that Sky has closed the door on sexism - they should now throw away the Keys".
(no subject)
Date: 26/1/11 21:53 (UTC)What they said was sexist, but it was also expressed in private. Big friggin' deal. If we police all of our private speech, if we look too deeply into our inner prejudices and bias, nobody will have a job. People need to get a life, especially the bitches.
Now, get back to making me my sandwich, dammit.
(no subject)
Date: 26/1/11 23:25 (UTC)They did not do what was necessary to ensure that what they said was said privately.
If would be different if they were in their own home, where they have a presumption of privacy, but if they want to make private speech in a commercial place of business that doesn't belong to them, and especially where they know that recording and broadcast of their words takes place much of the time, it's their responsibility to ensure that their speech is private, no-one elses.
(no subject)
Date: 26/1/11 23:39 (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 26/1/11 21:58 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 26/1/11 22:07 (UTC)Even so, he is giving them the ammo. Whilst I can see the sense of making it go so far as a limited time suspension, linked to a clear statement that further lapses will not be tolerated, in this case the damage has already been done.
I think that this does create a dangerous precedent - dangerous for certain people of a certian stripe maybe - however, they did have it coming to them.
(no subject)
Date: 26/1/11 22:02 (UTC)Actually when the ball is being passed to them by a team-mate (except when someone from your team is shooting directly at the goal, the ball bounces off the post or the crossbar, and then falls into the feet of your team-mate who has been behind the defense), but I get your point. :-)
Talking about out-of-touch with the modern era, it's amazing how come FIFA still won't introduce replay cameras at the goal-line for such controversial moments. The technology has been available for ages, it's inexpensive and it has shown good efficiency in other sports. When there's some dispute, the ref could just converse on the phone with the camera operator, the latter rolls back the 'tape', and reports whether it was an offside and the goal should be disallowed. But no, they won't do it. Instead they'd introduce a 5th and 6th referee standing behind the goals. And those are still humans. But how else would they be able to cover up for corrupt refs and rigged matches?
But I digress. Racism has been a major problem in football, and now sexism too, apparently. There are too many ~isms around to handle at a time, duh...
(no subject)
Date: 26/1/11 22:21 (UTC)As to the off side rule - there are complications, but this was basically put in place to stop players simply hanging around the goal mouth and waiting for the ball to get lobbed theiir way. the idea behind the rule is to try to force players to fight their way through the defence to score, making the game more watchable as a result.
There are all sorts of ifs and buts -
you cannot be ruled offside in yr own half,
throw ins and corners are a special case, plus a few more extras - but basically, you must be on yr own side of the field vis a vis your opponents, not behind the entire opposing team when you take the kick.
(no subject)
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Date: 26/1/11 22:07 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 26/1/11 22:14 (UTC)I would point out that the lineswoman was 25, and that hockey is played in girls schools over here, and yes- hockey does have an 'offside rule' too!
However, you do not become an FS official unless you pass the exam and get the qualification. Ms Massey is a qualified Linesperson for the FA - end of story.
Seriously, it is a tough job . play is end to end, for 45 minutes at a time.
the line judge must stay with the play , and watch for any infringement, and know the rules and interpretations. S/he must also decide without being able to consult the video camera. In this case, she made a really tough call - and got it right.
Everyone except Gray and Keys came out of this really well. even if they get new jobs with another channel, both will be tainted by the utterly ludicrous claims they made that will haunt them both forever.
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Date: 26/1/11 23:47 (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 26/1/11 22:08 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 26/1/11 22:25 (UTC)Also a certain US president who said something about commencing bombing russia in five minutes...
but, for me, Gray's remarks were indefensible , and should have warranted some sort of disciplinary action to both those involved. Maybe not a permanent sacking , but a painful enough rap to give anyone else pause and a clear understanding that this was not ok. but that is my opinion. i would be interested in anyone else's...
(no subject)
Date: 26/1/11 22:13 (UTC)I second Htpcl's remark about the replay technology. It's been long overdue. Blatter is a bastard.
(no subject)
Date: 26/1/11 22:17 (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 26/1/11 22:31 (UTC)plus, the liberal meeja have been called her a 'female' all day, wich in itself is a sexist term, so shows what they know!
other girls have been adding to the list of insults they face , a sports journalist acused of putting off the players by the way she holds her pen lol !
(no subject)
Date: 26/1/11 22:40 (UTC)Well, he's an old bloke. It could be just senility. But I know I'll be accused of ageism now.
(no subject)
Date: 26/1/11 22:47 (UTC)he is , indeed, the veteran ' voice of british football' - and that is what makes it shocking for his many female fans.
" I used to like him - he was brilliant, but if this is what really he thinks of women..." is a typical response from several women who folow the game ( and there are female footie fans in England )
This leads me to the conclusion that he shoulda known better. he is only 55- a few yrs older than me and definitely not senile. outdated and old fashioned, maybe, but still in full possession of his faculties.
and maybe this is what irks people - he ought to know better !
Aaand, the new Andy Gray should be...
Date: 26/1/11 22:51 (UTC)This is an excellent chance to replace the dour Keys and regressing Gray with interesting, insightful presenters and pundits. However, my fear is that Sky will follow the lead of the BBC in the wake of the Jonathan Ross/Russell Brand saga and become so scared of controversy that the coverage will become even blander than Jamie Redknapp and Alan Shearer analysing paint drying.
So come on Sky, get in Martin O'Neill and wee Gordon Strachan, make them down a couple of pints beforehand and watch the sparks fly!
Re: Aaand, the new Andy Gray should be...
Date: 26/1/11 23:46 (UTC)Re: Aaand, the new Andy Gray should be...
From:Re: Aaand, the new Andy Gray should be...
Date: 30/1/11 06:54 (UTC)See the lovely moose
Date: 26/1/11 23:02 (UTC)people had been sacked, wish it to be known that they have just been
sacked."
Re: See the lovely moose
Date: 26/1/11 23:47 (UTC)Re: See the lovely moose
Date: 27/1/11 00:00 (UTC)Re: See the lovely moose
From:(no subject)
Date: 30/1/11 06:51 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 30/1/11 11:56 (UTC)it may be that an individual can 'rise above it', and fair play to the female official who did. However, once an organisation goes with the line that 'it's okay by us', we have to say that they are lowering the bar and encouraging a general lowering of standards to even lower depths.
not only did they criticise an official ata match, they expressed a dissapproval of the governing body of the sport to put a woman in charge of the game.
By taking no disciplinary action whatever, Sky would be seen to be in agreement with those views. if people want a job where they get over a million pounds a year, and the status that goes with being seen an 'ambassador' for British football' they have to take the responsibilities that go with it.
maybe a temporary suspension would have done the job of sending a clear message that Sky did not approve - however, in the light of recently emerging clips on you Tube, it looks like both these guys ' had it coming'.