So what's to stop someone doing something really drastic on global warming

[telemann.livejournal.com]

So, 2010 tied as the 2nd warmest year according to NOAA. In fact, they issued this nifty map showing significant weather/climate related events around the world for 2010.




Charlie Sheen in the 1998 Sci-Fi movie "The Arrival".

In the science fiction movie, The Arrival, a group of aliens have landed on Earth and secretly taken on human form to speed up global warming, to create an environment more to their species' requirement. Charlie Sheen's character discovers the aliens have created large plants in Central America, that generate large quantities of CO2 and ventilate them under the cover of night. Using the same basic principle in that movie, why not reverse the principle to prevent global warming? There are alarming signs to climatologists that Earth is rapidly approaching several tipping points that once reached, will make it significantly more difficult to slow down the process of global warming.

Since it appears there is not much political will on the part of the United States to effectively change policies in a significant manner in a timely fashion, some suggest a proactive approach would be to inject highly reflective particles into the upper atmosphere to reflect sunlight back out into space, and basically give the planet a "cold compress." Basically the principle would be the same as volcanic ash, or even large particulate pollution (ironically-- there seems to be a correlation between increased temperatures and pollution controls being implemented in the 1960s/1970s that reduced significant amounts of pollution in the upper atmosphere, and some also think banning of above ground atomic testing prior to 1963, which injected large amounts of dust believe the nuclear test ban treaty had an impact as well for the same reasons).

So what would be the implications of such an approach? What could anyone really do to prevent such an approach by either a group of scientists or even a single nation or group of nations that resolutely was committed to changing the rules of the game. Would the United Nations prevent it? On what authority? Why would the objections against such an approach be logical in contrast to allowing industrial countries that consume a majority of Earth's resources continue destructive policies that hurt everyone? Remember this is completely hypothetical. No one has called for anything remotely like this. But I wanted to stimulate discussion along the lines of recent"what-if-historical" posts.


White surfaces in housing and building materials greatly reduce energy consumption and costs

But there are many other less intrusive ways for C02 withdrawal from the atmosphere, including restoring as quickly possible, natural vegetation and grasslands, or using white surfaces on rooftops and road surfaces which are good things in of themselves, since it lowers energy costs to home owners and business. Using reflective white surfaces on all the roads in the United States would effectively remove the impact of all vehicles in the United States for a year.



Bonus!! The latest installment from Climate denial crock of the week: Global Warming on Climate Change?

Comments

[dierdrae.livejournal.com]

I'm thinking it would largely depend on the method used to inject the particles. For example, if they are spread throughout the atmosphere via an airplane, that airplane would need clearance from various agencies in whatever-country-it-was or else it'd be shot down. Therefore, some random person or group couldn't really do it without at least the basic permission from their government to fly, and I'm assuming it would have to be a massive plane to carry enough particulate matter to make a difference, etc etc.

Or would it be a big jet based on the ground? Again, I'm wondering if the local government/federal government/neighbors/whoever would notice something that big being built.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Some have suggested using super high pressured jet sprays using ocean water (a different approach), as long as the vessels are in international waters, that could bypass that issue.

[mrflagg.livejournal.com]

>White surfaces in housing and building materials greatly reduce energy consumption and costs

says the person who doesn't live in a snowbelt

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Quite a few states that are the worst for consumption and C02 emissions aren't in the snow belt though. (http://www.eredux.com/states/?sortBy=carbon_percap_invert&sortOrder=DESC&rows=53)

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

My only comment is that what's asked of climate change by the rich countries is much more stringent as applied to the small countries, where Canada pretends Kyoto doesn't exist and the US never even ratified it. Unless the rich countries are willing to accept as strict as if not moreso rules as the ones applied to the poor countries, the leaders of those states aren't going to willingly preserve the global status quo at their expense *for* the big countries.

So the world would burn due to geopolitical wankery.

[reality-hammer.livejournal.com]

It's funny how "someone else" is always going to "pay more" for the things that allegedly benefit everyone.

[reality-hammer.livejournal.com]

I eagerly invite you to spend as much of your own money as you like pursuing whatever agenda you like.

Just don't expect everyone else to pay for your crazy.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

I don't want them dumping stuff in my air for my own good, even if I'm not paying for it.

[nevermind6794.livejournal.com]

That same principle applies to carbon emissions. You may put all the CO2 in the air you'd like, just keep it in your own air.

When that happens, you can reject the principle of public goods. Until then, quit whining.

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

Unless you're Al Gore, who spends his own money saying stuff.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

You don't speak for everyone else. You just speak for your own crazy self.

[airiefairie.livejournal.com]

Oh my...I was going to write at length about this but you beat me to it. But I will forgive you since you presented it in a much better way than I would have. My thoughts are a little incoherent these days...
...Might still do some effort though. =)

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

No no no you won't get away so easily. Not without sharing as much as you can about Cthulhu-land. Don't worry. We can wait.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Please post! We can't ever have too many posts about this issue. And I hope the incoherence is from fun and nothing serious ;) P.S. Thanks for the kind words too ;)

[frodomyhero.livejournal.com]

Like the TIME cover yet, another "war on" something. Until this country and others like it get out of the military industrial complex's addictions, we will all roast.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

Only a fool starts a war they won't win.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

it's hard to know what the long-term effects of this might be, of course. What would the particulates be made out of? What would happen when they fell into the sea or our forests? Could they get caught up into the jet-stream and NEVER fall to earth?

Having said that, it's ever more clear to most reasonable people that SOMETHING has to be done, and it needs to be done on a global level. Only the willfully blind can ignore it.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Always reminds me of the frog-in-a-pot-of-ever-heating-water anecdote.

"Hey frog, don't you feel there's something going on with the temperature?"
"What temperature?"
"Of the water."
"What water?"
"Well, the... Frog? Hey, Froggie? What happened to you? Froggie? Oh damn."

[devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com]

What is laughable is waiting to see if a disaster is truly upon us, and assuming we can 'fix' it at the last moment.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

I like it warm.

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Waterworld was a shitty movie, just saying.

[harry-beast.livejournal.com]

The big impediment to such a huge project would be money. Scientists don't have money. That's why they work in government labs or in private research facilities, and are exploited and abused by bureaucrats and managers who are ninety times stupider than they are.

There are only a small number of countries with the wealth, industrial base and technology to put together a massive save the earth initiative, and none of them can be bothered with even modest reductions in pollution.

[devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com]

The only thing that will save us is if someone discovers that a massive shitload of money can be made in saving the environment.

[nevermind6794.livejournal.com]

This idea has occurred to me. My main problem with it is the precedent; some person/corporation with the technology and capital gets to perform some massive project that affects literally everyone else in the world, and I'm not sure I like that direction.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Got wood?

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

We should explore all the geo-engineering options, but we should also admit we don't know the success/side effects of these plans.

When things get bad, then expect governments to implement some of these idea on their own.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

You mean the really radical ones, like injecting high altitude particulates,etc?

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Using reflective white surfaces on all the roads in the United States would effectively remove the impact of all vehicles in the United States for a year.

Problem with driving in the glare?

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Well bad wording on my part, but lighter colored asphalt. But the director of the U.S. Dept of Energy (a Ph.D. in Physics) has talked extensively about this and its one of the easiest things we could do. And considering the economy-- painting roads would be one heckuva stimulus.