(no subject)

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

This article is sort of clumsy. It seems like she's about to make the point that far too many of the black women we see in media as examples of beauty are still closer to a Eurocentric beauty model, or they are "anything but African American, slave decent, people like us" (ie. Wek, who is stunning, but looks quite different from most black American woman.)

But, then she stops short of saying that, and gets caught up in her own personal BS. This is easy to do. I do it. I've seen other women do it. In addition the article talks far to much about what black men want-- as if that were the most central issue. She equates the term 'Exotic' with those black women who have a mixture of European and black features-- something that didn't really ring true to me, but maybe we have experienced the word in different ways.

That all said, I think that the still prevalent and powerful Eurocentric/anything but you-people nature of print and popular media can have a damaging impact on the mind of young black girls and boys. It can warp our ideas about beauty no matter what type of sexual or aesthetic preferences we may have. It can influence what black people and people of all races think will be desirable in a partner. We each tell ourselves that our choice of partners is independent social pressures, but looking at population-wide trends suggests otherwise.

The Wrong Kind of Different
As a young girl in a mostly white environment I never thought of myself as exotic or special. There was a girl who moved to our suburb from Iraq and she was very exotic and special in the eyes of my peers. Now in my 8-year-old mind that was very enviable! I wished I could be exotic in that way. I knew nothing of the BS and baggage that my Iraq-born peer must have been facing-- to my mind it was like being a princess ...to come from a far away place... to be different. It never occurred to me that I was pretty different-- that was the wrong kind of different. I thought I was more plain than everyone else since, in the words of one teacher who thought she was helping "brown is the most common skin tone in the world." How do we internalize all of this by such a tender age? I was not the only young person who felt this way-- it was a view I shared with and learned from my mostly white peers.

Yo' Mama.
She's so, dark, fat, nappy and big lipped. And she's on welfare. Why did the boys, both black and white love these jokes so much? They play a big role in spelling out what a woman should NOT be. My parents deftly blocked some of this, my mom went out of her way to impress upon me that dark skin is beautiful. That darker skin could be more beautiful. I knew enough to say "Hey that's not funny!" when the dark skin or nappy hair jokes came out. Sadly, I also learned that being fat and being on welfare are solely matters of Personal Responsibility(TM). And I had a pretty warped idea of what "fat" meant. My grandma has warped ideas about nappy hair. (she thinks it's gross) I know a black woman who loves her body but hides from the sun like getting a few shades darker would kill her. (do you know many of us are vitamin D deficient?) So, some of these jokes stick to us. In what ways were notions of beauty spelled out for you as a young person?

Solution
We need to see beautiful woman who are dark, fat, black american and nappy. Well, in fact, I see such woman every day. But, I do not see them in media-- and that may seem minor but I think it can have a huge impact. We need to have this beauty publicly identified an affirmed shout it from the rooftops this is what is beautiful, pretty, lovely, elegant. Use these words. Not some other almost there words, like 'curvy' or 'strong.' To correct this kind of thinking you need to go in the opposite direction with equal and opposite force. It's not enough to have one or two such icons... how many thousands of times have you seen a woman who is thin, white, with european features described as beautiful? We don't even notice it any more. It takes time to unlearn. It's not enough to decide that it is true just for ourselves, we need to make it clear for this next generation of girls-- who are bust internalizing most of the same BS we grew up with. Nor is it enough to have a few women here and there who are black but with very european features, or features not common in American black women-- that too sends a negative message. Like the white guys in college who explained to me that black woman are beautiful if they are the "right kid" of black woman. Which brings me to this last point; cultural change may start from within the black community, but this issue (which is only a small part of a larger issue that involves women of all races) is something that people of all races should think about and take up. Just as fighting homophobia is not just work for gay people-- this doesn't get solved unless we all talk about it openly. Demand better media and discover the greater spectrum of beauty.

Comments

[airiefairie.livejournal.com]

I was really really really, REALLY missing your posts, futurebird...

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

They gave me more classes to teach this fall and I had no time. My life was all about linear algebra and calc... (I LOVE LINEAR ALGEBRA!!!) but I just turned in my grades so... I'm baaaaaaaack!

[light-over-me.livejournal.com]

So was I.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

Seconded! Or thirded or fourthed.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

Even I, who has rarely agreed with you, was thinking about how much I missed your posts and hoping you were OK!!!:D

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

ALL women are beautiful. Period.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

Fun fact: you really mean this.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

All women are ugly sacks of meat. Period.

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

I think that this is demonstrably false.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

I would go with most, it all boils down to the smile!!!

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

Seconded

If you can't find something worth admiring you aren't trying hard enough.

2 on what is beautiful

[verytwistedmind.livejournal.com]

My sister is mulatto, as am I and was often picked on by truly 'black' girls for being high-yellow, half breed and so on. I noticed early on that the boys liked her and that's why the girls hated her.

I have always preferred women of color. I have noticed that dark skin women don't typically date men as fair skinned as I am. However, every dog has his day even me ;)

The part of your post I question is two points: Fat and Nappy as beautiful.

Fat: I think a healthy body weight is attractive (I prefer thick just not obese.). Do we really want to find beauty in obesity?


* African American women have the highest rates of being overweight or obese compared to other groups in the U.S. About four out of five African American women are overweight or obese.1
* In 2007, African Americans were 1.4 times as likely to be obese as Non- Hispanic Whites.
* From 2003-2006, African American women were 70% more likely to be obese than Non-Hispanic White women.
* In 2003-2004, African American children between ages 6 -17 were 1.3 times as likely to be overweight than Non-Hispanic Whites.
http://www.raceandhealth.omhrc.gov/templates/content.aspx?lvl=3&lvlID=537&ID=6456

Don't we need to strongly encourage healthy body weights as beautiful, especially among minorities who suffer greater from twice as likely to have diabetes? Shouldn't we culturally discourage the overweight?

Nappy

Well I guess this depends on how you mean the word. I take 'nappy headed' as to refer to a person who has tightly coiled hair (typically this is a black person) with the caveat of being undone. Many women have nappy hair but they take good care of it so it isn't nappy. Whether that be conditioners, braids, straightened, or just keeping it picked out good. I like a woman who takes care of her hair. It shows she values herself and her appearance. I don't think I want to embrace 'nappy' as beautiful. Just like I don't like tangled up or frizzy hair.

Re: 2 on what is beautiful

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

By fat and nappy I mean just that. My hair is always nappy. It's tangled because it is locked and twisted. And, I take very good care of it. I don't se how these things are exclusive. As far as fat... What are you saying? That stigmatizing fat people and calling them ugly will help prevent obesity? (it will cause anorexia, in fact it caused my anorexia-- but it's not going to do anything about obesity.)

Some women will have larger hips and thighs, some will have larger busts-- in media we get one and only one body type 95% of the time: very small, tall and on the thin side of average. I think that is ridiculous.

I want to see, mediums-sized women and fat, yes big FAT women recognized for their beauty in my media or I'm not buying in to it. Sorry.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

Across the board we need to be much less judgmental towards women based on physical traits. It should be ok if they have some negative traits. They shouldn't feel like being attractive is the measure of their worth. Attracting a mate is cool and all, but there's so many other things for a person to do in life.

In the U.S. we're pushed such a narrow hard to obtain ideal too. It has to be hard to obtain, if it was easy people wouldn't buy makeup. If they already look like the ideal of beauty, why do they need the pushup bras, super spendy hair shampoo and fake eyelashes?

If we could accept that it's ok to not be the ideal, it would be fine if being overweight was a negative, because your physical appearance is not the sole measure of your worth, and in fact, not a huge deal. Like men! (thought beauty product companies have been doing their dastardlyest to change that, fuck you axe)

This is how I know we still live in a paternalistic society. If I was a woman, there's no way I'd put up with all this beauty shit. Hell, shaving legs alone, screw that! I've all but given up on shaving my face because its too annoying.

But no, I don't think being overweight should be portrayed as beautiful. I think it should be negative, just, as I said, overall physical things need to be less important.

As for the hair thing, skin thing, I totally agree. I feel like its again an arbitrary ideal because its harder to obtain. You'll sell a lot more to people who feel bad about themselves than good. I thing black people who embrace their frizzy hair are beautiful. They should enjoy it.

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

"But no, I don't think being overweight should be portrayed as beautiful." You have no control over this overweight women are beautiful every single day without your permission. I mean seriously. I do not get this at all. What is the point? Some kind of punishment for being fat? I mean what are you so scared of if an overweight woman is described as beautiful in mass media... will the moon crash in to the sun or something?

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

the still prevalent and powerful Eurocentric/anything but you-people nature of print and popular media can have a damaging impact on the mind of young black girls and boys.

FTFY

how many thousands of times have you seen a woman who is thin, white, with european features described as beautiful?

Too many, since most of the time it's not true.

Basically, the media's perception of beauty is screwy, in lots of ways.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

America is a eurocentric culture. Is it really surprising that eurocentric standards will be the most prominent?

And are people still arguing about beauty? It's easily the most subjective thing in the world and not worth arguing over. Some people will like fat, some will like skinny.

[dv8nation.livejournal.com]

Is it really surprising that Eurocentric standards will be the most prominent?

Not to me.

Of course, since those evil white Europeans invented racism then in some people's books pretty much anything they give the thumbs up to is EVIL.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Beauty is subjective. That said I do not find flesh-covered skeletons arousing, and that's what a lot of modern Hollywood/entertainment figures look like. See: Kiesha Knightley and the Olsen Twins as two I'm relatively familiar with. I do not see why people find attractive someone who looks like the Grim Reaper's party girl cousin.

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

The grim reaper is beautiful in his own way too.

I mean, just look at him! Aint he adorable?

[mrsilence.livejournal.com]

I think its great that you want to change the standards of beauty, the question is, how do you realistically intend to achieve it?

I'm not sure you really outline this is a coherent way and I'd like to see you elaborate on this.

Also, are you making a distinction here between aesthetic beauty and sexual attractiveness? I think there is a great deal of conflation here, not necessarily in your post, but in the topic itself whenever it is discussed and we need to be really careful about that.

We need to remember that being sexually attractive is often a powerful reason why something (or someone) can be considered beautiful, and that this type of beauty is not something that is susceptible to persusion, debate or control. You can't argue people into changing their minds if they find something sexually attractive or unattractive, because these emotions come from a part of their brain that doesn't respond to logical arguments.

Personally I don't find the personality of most black women that I have encountered in the media or in real life very attractive. But that doesn't mean I don't think they are beautiful. These are 2 related, but categorically different things.

brown is the most common skin tone in the world

I can understand why hearing that said might make you feel a certain way, but don't you think that if hearing a statement of fact feels hurtful, that the problem is not that the truth is being spoken aloud, but that you're responding to it in an unhelpful way? Isn't there another way you could interpret this kind of statement that would be self-promoting, rather than self-denigrating?

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

brown is the most common skin tone in the world

I can understand why hearing that said might make you feel a certain way, but don't you think that if hearing a statement of fact feels hurtful, that the problem is not that the truth is being spoken aloud, but that you're responding to it in an unhelpful way? Isn't there another way you could interpret this kind of statement that would be self-promoting, rather than self-denigrating?

That was my entire point-- even potentially positive facts become negative if you have internalized the western beauty myth fully enough. The teacher, was trying to be positive-- but, media, my peers adults I knew etc. had already given me this negative framework by age 8-- and it's not like this is some rare deal-- I think you would find that most young girls who are outside of the norm go through a similar thing-- though how one responds can vary quite a bit.

I included it to show how rapid and destructive these ideas can be-- and how a few platitudes such as saying "everyone is beautiful" now and then aren't enough to patch up the damage.

Of course, the damage could be lessened if we did away with the very sexist notion that a woman's worth is closely tied to her attractiveness. And some feminist think this is enough-- I don't I think we need to address the eurocentricity of beauty standards as well.

[evildamsel.livejournal.com]

I get that we should learn to think all kinds of variety of looks are beautiful, but should we really encourage society to think fat is beautiful? And I don't mean we should continue this shun culture we have for anything but skeletal thinness but we already have an obesity problem in America and being taught to accept that fat = good is really not going to help matters. We can learn inclusion without learning that lesson.

Beyond that, I wonder how much biology dictates what we find attractive.

[mrsilence.livejournal.com]

Well a good clue to that question is to ask yourself: have you ever made a conscious decision to find someone attractive or not?

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

Back in the 90s, Time did a cover story on our multi-ethnic future with a computer generated image of a "woman" in the near future with heritage traced to many different continents.



Most of my students in Hawai'i who saw the picture wanted to know if she was local.

A lot of our beauty ideals seem to be desperately clinging to a security blanket that's been worn down to threads for some time now.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Reminds me of what the adverts of a very prominent cosmetic surgeon here say:
"Beauty is in symmetry". By looking at this face, the first thing I see is symmetry.

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

p.s. great to see you here again -- you add great perspectives to the place!

[dexeron.livejournal.com]

I find this interesting in that it was actually addressed (in an obviously oversimplified way) by Sesame Street very recently. Joey Mazzarino, the head writer, adopted a little girl from Ethiopia, and as she has grown he has noticed the same pressures and societal expectations acting on her as she played with dolls and verbally expressed her wish to have "normal" hair, and the shocking lack of real role models for her.

Mazzarino's response was to do just what you are calling for: in effect to make us "see beautiful woman who are dark, fat, black american and nappy... in media". Obviously a muppet in a segment aimed at preschoolers can only go so far in such things, but the song Mazzarino wrote, and the puppet he designed to sing it were an attempt, in his own personal and small way, to begin addressing that issue on behalf of his daughter.

Here's the result:





As the father of a mixed race toddler daughter myself (whose hair type is still up in the air) I find this to be a pretty interesting, and personally relevent, discussion. How society influences her self-image, and how I can mitigate and/or shape that is something I'm pretty concerned about.