[identity profile] malasadas.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
Hat tip to [livejournal.com profile] telemann for the video link...Jon Stewart has aired his annual first shot at the yearly attempt to manufacture a "War Against Christmas" among the Fox News commentariat. Go ahead and watch the whole thing. I'll wait.



Now to be entirely fair, complaints about the nature of Christmas in the United States of America did not originate with Fox News and are not recent. Tom Lehrer presented the following song as an appropriate Christmas Carol for the year 1959:



Nevertheless, there is something odd about the past ten years or so of complaints about Christmas being "spoiled" by efforts of including some of the other religious holidays that share a common season in our pluralistic society or even acknowledging that others celebrate no specific holiday. It's led to a staggering amount of huffing and puffing and even periodic boycotts of retailers who, in an attempt to draw a broader crowd of holiday shoppers, offer "Season's Greetings" instead of "Merry Christmas".

The alleged "war" has taken to billboards in the New York metropolitan area where an atheist group paid for this billboard approaching the Lincoln Tunnel:



And found themselves countered by The Catholic League a short while later:



All of which gets me thinking of my first encounter with allegations that Christmas was "under assault". It was 1987, and I was 18 years old, returning home from my first semester of college to a small town in Massachusetts that was nearly 70% Jewish. Despite this demographic oddity, the fire department of the town annually decorated Town Hall in lights and a fairly garish, plastic, lit Santa Claus. The center of town was usually decorated tastefully with wreaths and white lights.

Well, right around my beginning high school, our town attracted a group of Chabad Labuvitch, a sub sect of Hassidic Jews who have a particular and peculiar mission. Among their various philosophies is a movement to bring about Messiah -- in fact, some in Chabad actually believe to this day that their late leader, Rabbi Menachem Schneerson WAS the Messiah. But even those who do not believe it is their duty to bring all Jews to a PROPER expression of our faith...which if you know anything about Judaism is a really funny project.

Labuvitchers do this by being uncharacteristically upfront about their faith and even in your face, especially if you are a Jew. Here in New York City, they operate a giant Sukkahmobile so that they can invite people they think are Jewish inside to participate in the Mitzvah of sitting in a Sukkah during the holiday of Sukkhot -- Now if you can imagine the controversy that a bunch of bearded men in large black overcoats might engender when they invite elementary school aged kids into a truck with them, you can probably guess that, unlike most Hassidim, Labuvitchers are not adverse to controversy and public attention.

So in my little town, this group's rabbi went to our town's board of selectmen and insisted that if the fire department was putting up a giant plastic Santa Claus on town property, they should also accommodate the rabbi's GIANT EIGHT FOOT TALL CHANNUKAH MENORAH which had previously only been visible to cars that passed his house on Main Street. The board accomodated him -- for one year, and in 1987 they declared that displays of specific religions should not be on town property, but the general holiday theme of lights was fine.

You would have thought that someone had taken Rudolph, cut him loose from his sleigh harness and stuck him on a roasting spit while he was still alive...all in front of the children's choir. People wrote lengthy, weepy letters to the town paper declaring that the "Grinch" had taken over town hall and protesting that Santa Claus was just a "jolly old elf for ALL children." While I was somewhat sympathetic (largely out of my belief that Chabad was a giant pain in the town's collective tuchus), I could not agree with the assessment of Santa Claus as a symbol for all children. Saint Nicholas is not a Jewish figure or a Muslim figure or a Hindu figure or an atheist figure -- he's a Christian Saint, and it is not only demeaning to other religions to graft him on their faiths, it is demeaning to Christianity to deflate an important figure to nothing more than the last car of the Macy's parade.

Now, more than two decades later, I have lived in plenty of places with very few Jews, and I know full well that I am a religious minority in this country and the vast majority celebrates and observes Christmas as a religious holiday. Even in New York City, I have to find constant ways this time of year to explain to my almost four year old daughter that we won't get a Christmas tree for our home no matter how much she wants one...spurned on by the omnipresence of Christmas and her inability to comprehend the importance of us being Jews not Christians.

I don't hold any grudge or desire for entitlement in the face of that, but I cannot help but wonder why some people feel such an urgent need to portray almost any nod towards a more pluralistic holiday season either from government or corporations as a "war" against the Christianity of Christmas. I see lots of lights up. I hear lots of music in public spaces that is geared towards Christmas. And while it is utterly dickish to try to purge any trace of Christianity from public view, it is even more dickish to wail that this is actually happening on any grand scale or that minor efforts like relabeling a parade constitutes an attack on Christians.

(no subject)

Date: 8/12/10 19:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pastorlenny.livejournal.com
Hanukah is almost over. And I'm the damn Messiah.

(no subject)

Date: 9/12/10 03:00 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
You're not the messiah, you're just a very naughty boy.

(no subject)

Date: 8/12/10 19:38 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
I love how a holiday American Christianity traditionally damned as too riotous and materialistic is now held by the descendants of those original people to be traditional American values when nothing could be further from the Truth. The revival of Christmas in the USA had more to do with Charles Dickens than any religious figure of the time and these days the only reason for the season is to keep retailers in the black.

The Birth of Christ is now the Salvation of Mammon. How fun. /snerk.

(no subject)

Date: 8/12/10 20:42 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dv8nation.livejournal.com
Who cares why it came back? And I rather think the religious aspect is just as, if not, more important that the $ aspect of why we have Christmas.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com - Date: 9/12/10 12:19 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 8/12/10 19:42 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
Image

I literally spit out my coffee when I saw that graphic, when this first aired.
Edited Date: 8/12/10 19:43 (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 8/12/10 19:50 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
Now, more than two decades later, I have lived in plenty of places with very few Jews, and I know full well that I am a religious minority in this country and the vast majority celebrates and observes Christmas as a religious holiday. Even in New York City, I have to find constant ways this time of year to explain to my almost four year old daughter that we won't get a Christmas tree for our home no matter how much she wants one...spurned on by the omnipresence of Christmas and her inability to comprehend the importance of us being Jews not Christians.

Out here in Brooklyn near Ocean Parkway, most windows have Menorahs and at night time, it's a beautiful sight, along with the Christmas decorations. And I understand your not wanting a Christmas tree, but I've known several Jewish friends that have had them (all secular and non-religious ones) and all of them play Christmas music in their houses. The disconnect threw me for a loop, and when I asked about it, they don't believe in Christmas as a religious festival, but instead see it as a time for family and friends. "What's not to like in Christmas trees and such beautiful music?" In two cases, they're strict atheists and wouldn't allow a Menorah in their homes.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 22:40 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com - Date: 10/12/10 01:08 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com - Date: 10/12/10 01:14 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com - Date: 10/12/10 03:05 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com - Date: 10/12/10 03:22 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com - Date: 10/12/10 03:34 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com - Date: 10/12/10 03:35 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com - Date: 10/12/10 03:39 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com - Date: 10/12/10 17:46 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] moonchylde.livejournal.com - Date: 10/12/10 20:55 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com - Date: 10/12/10 21:32 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com - Date: 9/12/10 03:02 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 8/12/10 19:52 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
LOL, when the car turns-- that's Greenwich and Christopher Street in the Village ;)

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 19:58 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] merig00.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 20:01 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 20:14 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] merig00.livejournal.com - Date: 9/12/10 14:45 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 20:04 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 20:14 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 22:25 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 8/12/10 19:54 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] roofless.livejournal.com
You should check out Rick Steve's European Christmas Special from 2005 (free video podcast) to see how ridiculously reactionary and over-sensitive the American populace has become with thinking that anything religious - especially with a Christian undertone - equals offensive.

We're some of the most intolerant assholes where the free exercise of religion is concerned.

contrast America to this:
http://www.ricksteves.com/news/chrvodcast.htm

If anything, it helps to put a person's focus on tradition, faith and charity rather than consumerism run amok.

Lastly, if it weren't for twits like (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20101130_Let_s_call_it_the_German__Holiday__Village.html) this (http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/12/02/2676274/jpmorgan-chase-orders-southlake.html) , Stewart wouldn't have to pretend that there weren't twits like that.

(no subject)

Date: 8/12/10 20:43 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-new-machine.livejournal.com
Wait, do you actually MEAN your icon? Because really...

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] roofless.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 20:53 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] a-new-machine.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 20:54 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] roofless.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 20:56 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com - Date: 9/12/10 12:26 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 8/12/10 22:41 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com
We're some of the most intolerant assholes where the free exercise of religion is concerned.

I end up saying that anti-Christian bigotry is the only remaining allowable bigotry in society these days. People don't seem to get it.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] novapsyche.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 22:54 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 9/12/10 12:29 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Yeah, because we totally have a League of Militant Godless running around gutting churches and putting bullets in the brains of priests. /snerk.

(no subject)

Date: 8/12/10 19:56 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com
Actually, the Turks at least do have a St. Nicholas, although he's a bit more like Robin Hood than the American Santa Claus. So I would argue that he's not a specifically religious figure at all. (There's other reasons supporting that argument too, I just don't feel like listing them all right now.)

Saturnalia! Brumalia!

Date: 8/12/10 19:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com
Just in case you missed this one:

8 Questions Gentiles Love Asking About Hanukkah (http://www.cracked.com/blog/8-questions-gentiles-love-asking-about-hanukkah/)

(no subject)

Date: 8/12/10 19:58 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mijopo.livejournal.com
OTOH, it's also laughable how people think that somehow using the label 'holiday' rather than "Christmas" somehow suffices to adequately secularize public celebrations and make everyone comfortable. here's a markup I did of our town's "holiday" celebration: http://markup.io/v/sfk2yzw1d3p0

(My favourite is just renaming a Christmas tree a "holiday" tree. Yup, that'll work because all religion use an evergreen tree as a key symbol for their an important celebration / observation that they participate in the Decemberish time frame.)

(no subject)

Date: 8/12/10 20:01 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rasilio.livejournal.com
Why don't you have a Christmas Tree or give gifts on the 25th.

Do you celebrate the 4th of July?
How about New Years?
Labor Day?
Thanksgiving?

That Christmas has religious overtones to some is completely irrelevant to the fact that it is also an important cultural holiday and in fact NONE, that is right absolutely none of the traditions associated with the cultural holiday are Christian in Origin.

Saying I won't celebrate Christmas because it is Christian is just foolish because it is NOT Christian and never really has been.

Hell it was not until sometime in the late 1880's that the Catholic church even began allowing it's members to have Christmas celebrations, prior to that the practice was considered pagan and officially forbidden (not that very many listened).

(no subject)

Date: 8/12/10 20:06 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
Hell it was not until sometime in the late 1880's that the Catholic church even began allowing it's members to have Christmas celebrations.

Really?

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 20:16 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] meus-ovatio.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 20:17 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 20:19 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] meus-ovatio.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 20:21 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] rasilio.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 20:23 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 20:27 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 20:27 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] rasilio.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 20:40 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 20:51 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 8/12/10 20:54 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] novapsyche.livejournal.com
Why don't you have a Christmas Tree or give gifts on the 25th.

Do you celebrate the 4th of July?
How about New Years?
Labor Day?
Thanksgiving?


That is the most fatuous question I've seen asked here.

I celebrate New Year's Day, Labor Day & Thanksgiving precisely because there is no religious content. Those holidays, with the exception of New Year's, are state holidays. I used to celebrate Christmas & Easter, but I no longer do, because I no longer identify as Christian. (However, I would be justified in celebrating Christmas since it was initially a pagan holiday.)

I don't celebrate Chinese New Year because I'm not Chinese. I don't celebrate Passover because I'm not Jewish. I don't celebrate Cinco de Mayo because I'm not Mexican. &c.

Christmas is certainly contemporarily Christian as it has been coopted by the Christian church. I daresay that most people who celebrate Christmas are Christians, which would put the lie to your assertion that the holiday is not Christian.

it was not until sometime in the late 1880's that the Catholic church even began allowing it's members to have Christmas celebrations

That is rather irrelevant to whether the holiday is celebrated as Christian today.
Edited Date: 8/12/10 20:56 (UTC)

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] rasilio.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 21:17 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 22:42 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] novapsyche.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 22:58 (UTC) - Expand

Because this getting

From: [identity profile] geezer-also.livejournal.com - Date: 9/12/10 02:45 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Because this getting

From: [identity profile] airiefairie.livejournal.com - Date: 9/12/10 16:23 (UTC) - Expand
(deleted comment)

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] rasilio.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 21:10 (UTC) - Expand

"Kill a Tree for Christ"

From: [identity profile] russj.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 21:50 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] mijopo.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 21:53 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] rasilio.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 22:03 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] mijopo.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 22:13 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] geezer-also.livejournal.com - Date: 9/12/10 02:58 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] rasilio.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 22:07 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 23:15 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com - Date: 9/12/10 00:21 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] spaz-own-joo.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 21:57 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] geezer-also.livejournal.com - Date: 9/12/10 02:56 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] rasilio.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 22:05 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] singlethink.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 22:39 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] novapsyche.livejournal.com - Date: 8/12/10 22:53 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] singlethink.livejournal.com - Date: 9/12/10 00:18 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com - Date: 9/12/10 12:24 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] singlethink.livejournal.com - Date: 9/12/10 16:52 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 8/12/10 21:58 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com
I've got a lighted sign blinking "Happy Holidays" on my house. I hope it doesn't anger some fundamentalist Christian to burn a cross on my lawn.

(no subject)

Date: 8/12/10 22:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] reality-hammer.livejournal.com
I was amused when the bumper music trailing a story on Fox News about a Christmas parade being renamed a Holiday parade was...Happy Holidays.

(no subject)

Date: 8/12/10 23:14 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
Very common thing here:

Image

It says "Happy holidays". We've got a load of holidays at the end of December and the beginning of January (Western style Christmas, New Year, old style Christmas, and a dozen name days, including Varvara day, Sava day, Nikolai day yesterday, Anna day tomorrow, Daniel day, Ignat day, David day, Stefan day, Vassil day, Jordan day, Anton day, Atanas day... all big holidays).

We didn't use to have Santa (Father Christmas) until 20 years ago, we had Father Frost (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ded_Moroz) instead. Now we give presents both on Christmas and New Year - a compromise between our atheist communist past and the revival of religious Orthodox tradition (plus, it's great for the kids).

It's all holidays while the tree stays, and it stays for nearly a month. So "Happy holidays" sounds pretty all-inclusive to me.

/anecdote time

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com - Date: 9/12/10 01:54 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] geezer-also.livejournal.com - Date: 9/12/10 03:03 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com - Date: 9/12/10 03:51 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com - Date: 9/12/10 16:16 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] reality-hammer.livejournal.com - Date: 10/12/10 01:52 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 8/12/10 23:12 (UTC)
weswilson: (Default)
From: [personal profile] weswilson
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40260889/ns/business-holiday_retail/

Randy Sharp, director-special projects at the AFA, said that in the past five years the group has seen the percentage of retailers recognizing Christmas in their advertising rise from 20 percent to 80 percent. Just eight retailers are left on the group's list of "Companies Against Christmas."

It's also become more challenging to find a large, national retailer to single out for the group's annual boycott. This year, Dick's Sporting Goods, which boasts an online "Holiday Shop," will be the target of the boycott. The AFA is expected to send an Action Alert to its 2.3 million supporters on Friday morning. That alert will urge shoppers to boycott Dick's between now and Dec. 25. It also calls for consumers to e-mail President-Chief Operating Officer Joseph Schmidt and then call Chief Marketing Officer Jeff Hennion. The retailer declined to comment. In the past, Target, Sears, Gap and Walmart have been targets.

(no subject)

Date: 9/12/10 02:04 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rasilio.livejournal.com
"That alert will urge shoppers to boycott Dick's between now and Dec. 25."

I am assuming that they are only sending this message to the male members

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] reality-hammer.livejournal.com - Date: 10/12/10 01:53 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 8/12/10 23:45 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com
which if you know anything about Judaism is a really funny project.

Hahahaah!

GIANT EIGHT FOOT TALL CHANNUKAH MENORAH

Big Daddy!

You would have thought that someone had taken Rudolph, cut him loose from his sleigh harness and stuck him on a roasting spit while he was still alive.

I think that was the Simpsons last week, cept it was Crusty as Santa making Rudolph soup! 5:20+

http://otseries.info/the-simpsons-season-22-episode-8-the-fight-before-christmas/

Thanks for the TL song, hadn't heard it before.

And

Edited Date: 8/12/10 23:46 (UTC)

Being Pagan, and Australian

Date: 9/12/10 02:43 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brockulfsen.livejournal.com
The whole things seems rather silly.

I live in a secular democracy, although in the only state where the State Schools are not secular.

I see weird Snow and Fur trimmed coats and other winter themes getting more and more over the top as the temperature approaches meltdown.

So, I wish people a "Happy Festive Season" except pagans and people who get in my face about Jesus, both of those minorities get a hearty "Merry Midsummer".

Retailers I wish a "Happy Festival of the Jolly Fat Man".


Before I depart, don't forget the Reason for the Season

... Axial Tilt

Re: Being Pagan, and Australian

Date: 9/12/10 03:10 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
What state? I thought Howard's chaplaincy programme was nation wide?

I did a google to see what other states do (I'm in Vic, you have to opt out of RE in primary school here) and I found this:

Queensland state schools support religious diversity by allowing for three distinct programs:

* Bible Lessons
* Chaplaincy Services
* Religious Instruction.


The ridiculous thing about the chaplaincy service is that my school has a counselor and not a chaplain, but they had to do some creative accounting with a charity to get a non-religious welfare person with the chaplaincy money.

(no subject)

Date: 9/12/10 05:48 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] op-tech-glitch.livejournal.com
Pffff...yeah whatever, put Cthulhu back in Cthulhumas and Saturn back in Saturnalia, then we'll talk.

(no subject)

Date: 9/12/10 06:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] major-dallas.livejournal.com
...can't, currently Cthulhu is roaming the west with The Coon, aka Eric Cartman, going after Synagouges Farmer's Markets...

Image

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] op-tech-glitch.livejournal.com - Date: 9/12/10 07:14 (UTC) - Expand

Credits & Style Info

Talk Politics.

A place to discuss politics without egomaniacal mods


MONTHLY TOPIC:

Failed States

DAILY QUOTE:
"Someone's selling Greenland now?" (asthfghl)
"Yes get your bids in quick!" (oportet)
"Let me get my Bid Coins and I'll be there in a minute." (asthfghl)

June 2025

M T W T F S S
       1
2 34 5 678
910 1112 131415
1617 1819 202122
2324 2526272829
30