What is Conservatism to you?

[404.livejournal.com]

I have started on Dr. Alitt's excellent primer on the Conservative Tradition, through The Teaching Company (available @ http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspx?cid=4812 for those who are interested, it costs money though, but not too much, especially when compared to university level classes), and it got me thinking about what I feel Conservatism as a political philosophy really is. Obviously given from the word that is used: Conservative, which denotes careful planning and rational development, but is that all it is? I am curious in what y'all think it means. Maybe this will spark a conversation that does not break down into name calling, but we shall see.

Comments

[surferelf.livejournal.com]

"I don't believe it is integral, simple observation shows that it is. Only a few people are actually anti-authority and there are signs that indicate it, regardless of lip service."

I don't trust simple observation. Things are rarely simple.

Also, I'm not proposing that this is binary condition. It's more of a continuum, and conservatives appear to be more toward the authoritarian^{* (#note)} end. I heard a good example of this on the news this morning. Conservative politicians in Arizona talking about being vehemently opposed to immigration reform that would include a "path to citizenship" for illegals already in the country. Which makes sense because that would reward illegals for their disobedience to authority.

"'I don't understand. How would allowing gay marriage make the present situation worse w/r/t individual liberty?'

It continues and extends government meddling in personal affairs."

But toward the purpose of maximizing individual liberty. And you said that
"individual rights take precedence". So clearly, there is something going on here that is trumping individual liberty for conservatives.

"'Why are you so sure that it's religious people bringing their morality to politics and not that they are attracted to a political philosophy that fits their morality?'

Because there are people with the same moral values on these issues that are on both sides of the political divide.

Also, historically, the trend cycles between punishment and rehabilitation over time unrelated to political philosophy. We've been at the apex of the punishment cycle lately and are starting to swing back to rehabilitation agai
n."

We've been in a pretty solid punishment cycle since 1914. When was the rehabilitation cycle?

---

^*There has got to be a better word than "authoritarian". It has a negative connotation that I'm not trying to imply. However, the dictionary definition fits.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

In my experience, life is always simple, it's people that make it complex either because they don't understand it or they want to make it complex.

And you said that "individual rights take precedence". So clearly, there is something going on here that is trumping individual liberty for conservatives.

I already said that I think most conservatives aren't looking at the status quo to see if it meets their principles and if they did they would see that it didn't. So, what's trumping liberty is the desire to keep things the same.

We've been in a pretty solid punishment cycle since 1914. When was the rehabilitation cycle?

That's incorrect. There was a rehab cycle that peaked in the 70's and the one before that in the 50's.

[surferelf.livejournal.com]

In my experience, life is always simple, it's people that make it complex either because they don't understand it or they want to make it complex.

My life seems to be full of people that want to make it complex. ;)

I already said that I think most conservatives aren't looking at the status quo to see if it meets their principles and if they did they would see that it didn't. So, what's trumping liberty is the desire to keep things the same.

"The desire to keep things the same" would have been my definition for conservative until 1994. What would that be called? Honoring tradition? In any event, you appear to have identified something else that is at least as important to individual liberty to conservatives.

That's incorrect. There was a rehab cycle that peaked in the 70's and the one before that in the 50's.

I know that more treatment options became available during that time period. However, I'm not aware that treatment became a substitute for punishment. The laws and penalties just seem to become increasingly draconian from 1914 until today.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

The laws and penalties just seem to become increasingly draconian from 1914 until today.

You're looking at the wrong thing. Laws never get repealed (generally), so of course they aren't going to cycle. What you have to look at is the attitude of society to what criminal justice is.

http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/313/History-Corrections-Punishment-Prevention-or-Rehabilitation.html

There was another good explanation, but I can't find it now. But there's several books in the library that go over this debate and it's history.

In any event, you appear to have identified something else that is at least as important to individual liberty to conservatives.

It's not as important, but when the issue doesn't appear to be about individual liberty then it's a fallback consideration.