What is Conservatism to you?

[404.livejournal.com]

I have started on Dr. Alitt's excellent primer on the Conservative Tradition, through The Teaching Company (available @ http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspx?cid=4812 for those who are interested, it costs money though, but not too much, especially when compared to university level classes), and it got me thinking about what I feel Conservatism as a political philosophy really is. Obviously given from the word that is used: Conservative, which denotes careful planning and rational development, but is that all it is? I am curious in what y'all think it means. Maybe this will spark a conversation that does not break down into name calling, but we shall see.

Comments

[weswilson]

I think conservatism is a deference to existing social and governmental structures over change. I think liberalism is a desire to take action to enact change in the face of these existing structures. To me, there are pitfalls down each path.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

Conservatives can be liberals if the tradition is liberal. I don't understand why conservatives and liberals are put up as the juxtaposition. The opposite of conservative is progressive.

Much Better

[404.livejournal.com]

(http://media.photobucket.com/image/scarlett johansson popcorn/madamkelly/Winehouse/ScarJo_popcorn.gif?o=1)

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Conservative means that you favor moderate reform of the monarch's role in a parliamentary government. Liberal means that you want to behead the King.

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

Democrats are conservative, Tea Partiers are liberals!

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

It can mean different things in different cultures. For instance the Teabagger-analogues in India are groups like Hinduvta who are conservative Far-Rightists but *HINDU* conservative Far-Rightists. They attack Christians and Muslims because they have completely different axes of what is and isn't conservative.

And of course in the last days of the USSR, politics there are one of my favorite means to show how faulty the usual Con-Prog idea can be if it's only rooted in Western liberalism v. Burkeanism.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

For those who don't want to pay and would rather steal, the teaching company stuff is largely available through torrent :P

My understanding of Conservatism is the same; it's careful forward progress within the tradition of the community. If something goes against the traditions of the community, even if it is proven to be better (however that is judged) it should be avoided.

[404.livejournal.com]

ha ha, no one torrents, especially me *wink* *wink*

Chang may be not avoided, but could be assimilated and changed enough to be considered OK?

[jonathankorman.livejournal.com]

Phil Agre has a notable, vigorous long critique that speaks to this question: “What Is Conservatism and What Is Wrong with It?” (http://polaris.gseis.ucla.edu/pagre/conservatism.html)

Liberals in the United States have been losing political debates to conservatives for a quarter century. In order to start winning again, liberals must answer two simple questions: what is conservatism, and what is wrong with it? As it happens, the answers to these questions are also simple:

Q: What is conservatism?
A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.
Q: What is wrong with conservatism?
A: Conservatism is incompatible with democracy, prosperity, and civilization in general. It is a destructive system of inequality and prejudice that is founded on deception and has no place in the modern world.

These ideas are not new. Indeed they were common sense until recently. Nowadays, though, most of the people who call themselves “conservatives” have little notion of what conservatism even is. They have been deceived by one of the great public relations campaigns of human history. Only by analyzing this deception will it become possible to revive democracy in the United States.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

And the other part of the problem is that people who call themselves "liberals" are not either.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Except that this presumes that all societies see conservatism and the like on an axis solely geared towards the West. Let me ask you this: is the Islamic Republic of Iran Right-Wing or Left-Wing? In cases like the Third World what amounts to conservative nationalism and Right-Wing impulses to that society can come across to the USA as against its interests and therefore Left-Wing radicalism. But guys like Mossadeqh and Saddam Al-Majid were not necessarily Leftists so much as nationalist and cultural puritans on completely different axes.

[surferelf.livejournal.com]

Liberals have not been losing political debates to conservatives. They have been losing elections. Until recently, that is. And that is largely because of brand poisoning on behalf of the conservatives, and the fact that there is no other place for voters to go. In fact, the political landscape has been completely devoid of debate for as long as I can remember. No one is actually interested in what the other side has to say.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

I think its best to shun both extremes. The French idea of liberty is a good one, its just like with any idea though, doesn't always work perfectly.

[magna-carter.livejournal.com]

Coming from a Labour household, I view conservative politics to be all about making the rich even richer, and keeping the poor 'in their place'.

[xforge.livejournal.com]

What I want to concern myself most with is fiscal conservatism: don't spend money on useless bullshit. My definition of "useless bullshit" is military spending beyond what it takes to maintain a well-manned and well-equipped force (obviously "well-equipped" does NOT mean fighter jets that cost a quarter of a billion dollars each; we do not need anything any more advanced than what we had at the end of WWII, I am not joking). "Useless bullshit" also includes subsidies and corporate welfare to entities that already have billions and continue to make money at obscene rates while taxpayers starve. That way you see, the state will have the money to see to it that its people can get health care when they need it, and that its children are properly educated to compete in today's world. And don't grow up to be disease-riddled morons.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Conservatives in theory believe that social change is possible it just needs to be slower and contained. The problem is the present-day GOP is divided between theocrats and reactionaries and so never has the slightest hint of what its conservatives used to be like. When Barry gorram Goldwater comes across as the sane fellow next to his successors that is a *BAD THING*.

[eracerhead.livejournal.com]

IAWTC The regressive faction of the right has hijacked the conservative label. This is part of a tried and true tradition of merely wearing the trappings of a successful body of work in order to lend credibility to one's own ideas.

well, not a whole lot's topped this since I came across it last week:

[op-tech-glitch.livejournal.com]

(http://boingboing.net/2010/06/28/repuglicans-61-monst.html)

Source (http://boingboing.net/2010/06/28/repuglicans-61-monst.html)

Re: well, not a whole lot's topped this since I came across it last week:

[miniaya.livejournal.com]

(http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b158/mini852/?action=view&current=2qalladjpg.gif)

[mijan.livejournal.com]

I've come to believe that "conservativism," in the Modern American interpretation, means believing the same thing on Thursday as you did on Tuesday regardless of what happens on Wednesday.

My other thought is that Conservativism is when you support freedom of religion (as long as it's your religion), freedom of family (as long as it's your type of family), freedom from taxes (as long as it's your money), freedom of speech (as long as you agree with it), freedom to ignore science and history (because those two things do not support modern conservative principles), and freedom from logic (because logic is diametrically opposed to most conservative principles).

I would like to believe that "conservative" economics means rational development and careful planning with resources, but in reality, I've only seen it as a tribute to the almighty dollar above everything else. Deregulation and profit-first politics without an eye to the future - THAT is what I've seen of conservative economics. Maybe, once upon a time, it meant "nose to the grindstone." Now, it means "nose to the computer screen while you watch your stock options." There's NO consideration for the labor that drives the economy. There needs to be a balance between entrepreneurship and labor, and that's been killed by conservative economics.

So... what is conservativism to me? Maybe it was supposed to be something different, but in this day and age, all I see is a failed experiment.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

That's because the Goldwater conservatives went away once the Nixon Administration imploded. Present-day American "conservatism" is a competition between reactionaries who believe revolution is a destructive leap from Monday into Wednesday but want to revert society to the way it was a year ago and the Theocons. The Theocons, however, are instead a revolutionary movement of the sort that Ayatollah Khomeini led and the comparison is deliberate. Their ideas are only different from Velayat-i-faqih in that the former is strictly rooted in Muslim rationalism.....

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

Ideologies are just a suite of beliefs that tend to rely on issues to really manifest themselves. Most people pick an ideology then go about backwards on shoehorning their beliefs into what that ideology entails.

Liberals and conservatives in America don't really differ all that much in the world today. The breaking point is really just on their philosophical premises.

It is amusing to see most self-avowed liberals describing conservatives with terms that can easily apply to them though.

[prader.livejournal.com]

Yes.

I am an actual liberal. Most "Liberals" today, in my opinion, are not liberals at all, but statist authoritarians masquerading as liberals.

But to them I'm a right wing lunatic. Completely indistinguishable from someone like Rush Limbaugh.

The more you know about these labels, the less they matter.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

After reading the comments on this thread, I understand why someone came up with axion "Conservatives think liberals are mistaken but liberals think conservatives are evil". If the responders of the OT are any indication, liberals don't really understand conservatives at all. (on the other hand conservatives understand liberals all too well :D)

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

Heh. There's the counter-point that every conservative thinks he understands liberals, while liberals know they will never understand conservatives.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Conservatism to me is the principles founded on the concept that the individual is primary, that individual liberty is most important, and that individual rights take precedence. This is contrasted to liberalism which holds that the group is primary. Conservatism would say that government laws need to follow society whereas liberalism would say that government laws need to lead society.

[surferelf.livejournal.com]

That seems too simplistic to me. Conservatives wouldn't be as largely pro-life if this were truly the case. The war on drugs would never have happened. Gay marriage wouldn't be controversial. And military service wouldn't be as venerated among conservatives as it is. Joining the military is the pinnacle of placing one's rights below those of one's group.

[miniaya.livejournal.com]

Off Topic, but I love your icon. :3 Did you make it?

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

Conservatism in America has become a sustained exercise in the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

Conservatism seeks to conserve.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

There is always an object to be conserved. For some, this object is church, home, culture. From my perspectives, conservatives simply seek to conserve despotism.