(no subject)

[oportet.livejournal.com]

I'm not a liberal, but if I was, I can't imagine what I would have against the Tea Party movement - so hopefully a liberal/democrat could help me out with this.

I understand the movement is made up mostly of conservatives, so wouldn't that either be a good, or at worst, neutral thing for you when elections come around?

Sure, the Tea Party isn't an official party with representatives, but when a big (or the big) election comes around, they'll most likely endorse someone (If they don't, that would fall under neutral). If the person/people they back are Republican, you saw it coming, and you'll pretty much have the same outcome there would have been if the TP never existed (again, neutral result). If the person/people they back aren't Republican, it wouldn't be taking many, if any, votes away from your side - nowhere near the number it would be taking away from Republicans (this would fall under good for you).

Or am I missing something?

Comments

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

Once again: Freedom of speech is one thing. Calls of "Traitor" or implied threats of violence against the government is another.

We can call each other morons in the heat of debate; But when I call you "traitor", that's crossing a line; When I try to equate color of skin as "American" that's a problem.

As I said...call out the loons who are standing behind you, otherwise it looks like you approve of their message.


The respectful discussions may flow better when that happens...

[rainynights.livejournal.com]

So I guess because I consider my self a tea party member that because you already see me in a bad light I should just be disrespectful to you and call you names? That would make me no better than most liberals I encounter.

I will give the respect I am given though so if in this discussion or in any discussion I am treated in a manner other than respectful I will just not reply. I don't buy oh go talk to your people and tell them to calm down no they have every right to be who they want to be this is America.

Same could be again of your peers.. tell the liberals like code pink to stop desecrating marine's place of work. Tell them not to mock our troops who are going off to protect the freedom that allows them to mock them. Sometimes it is best to take our own advice. You will find most republicans or conservatives are not violent and repsect your right to be who you are.

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

Code Pink?? Are they even still around??

And they *were* chastised by Liberals, they *were* called out -- selective memory would be the only reason you would believe otherwise.

So please, let's not use a false comparison to talk about a very real issue that is happening to this day.


And yes, "respectful" discussion not only means respect between us (although it *is* the internet and sometimes emotions rise) --- but you can't fail to disavow the loons AND then question harsh reactions when the loons claim you and you dont disavow them.

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

Some criticism of code pink, btw -- although again, I wasnt sure they were even still around:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,512446,00.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8138744

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/11/11/18276/131/579/659448

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/09/10/video-code-pink-removed-from-petraeus-hearing/

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2008/06/19/npr-presses-pelosi-left-code-pink-criticism

[rainynights.livejournal.com]

wow some of those were just a joke.. point I was making do not tell me to go talk to my people when you have "loons" yourself. Both parties have them..

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

Both parties have them

Conceding that point, we're still left with how we respond to them.

I and many of my liberal friends refused to attend anti-war rallies because the anti-war movement refused to exert message control -- they were open ground for Truthers and a hodge-podge of various nuts. I personally refused to stand up and be counted WITH those people even though I oppose the war in Iraq.

If you stand side-by-side with the people at the Tea Parties waving birther signs or saying Obama is going to enacy white slavery and don't confront them, you are giving them your approval by silence. If the Tea Party as a movement does nothing to remove their messages from the rallies then the MOVEMENT is tainted by them.

Clucking about "both parties" doesn't make that go away.

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

Point was people HAVE told off Code Pink. Haven't really seen too much of that from the Republicans or the TP.

Both parties have loons, yet I dont see dissent coming from yours.

Why is that??

[rainynights.livejournal.com]

Maybe because the represent some kind of hope.. I have seen really nothing good come from Obama except well bigger government. No one wants bigger government. Do you really want the government telling you what to do with your money? How to live your life?

The tea party gives the average American a way to express them selves with like minded individuals. I see them as just hope in these dark days. That is what people are looking for is hope.

They dislike Obama the GOP dislikes Obama's policies.. Perhaps that is why they are not coming out and saying anything. Also the majority of the Tea party people have done nothing wrong. The majority are just like I am. Again there will always be nutjobs but you can not stop them from expressing and using the freedoms they have. Just like Bill Ayers is being allowed to spread his hate all because of freedom of speech.

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

So let me understand this:

You're saying you have NOT told off the racists and loons threatening violence because "they represent some kind of hope"??

Tea Party people sit up there and complain about "it's not fair to label us racists...or violent", but when asked why you dont disavow the loons who are -- you answer "they represent some kind of hope"???????


You *can* publically say "We dont support them". You *can* have the protest organizers say "We need you to leave; You can protest over THERE but not as part of our rally". That **CAN** be done quite easily.

No offense, but I find your answer more of a cop-out than a serious response for why people should be understanding of the TP; In fact, your answer illustrates why people dont particularly like them -- you acknowledge you have loons and racists yet you show no interest in distancing yourself from them.

You've made my point for me...

[rainynights.livejournal.com]

so be it I guess. I disagree totally with you.

I do not "tell off loons" because I do not encounter them. Again most of us scary tea party people are decent honest people who quietly go to rallys to show our support.

If you do not like my stance or my beliefs well I wont lose any sleep tonight. Like me or hate me I still will always stand up for what I believe in. We have one voice and if we never use that voice we never make a difference.

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

You'll stand up for what you believe in -- but apparently wont disavow the racists on a public forum, or ask your pundits to do the same.

If you truly have "one voice", then you're saying you agree with *everyone* who calls themself a Tea Party member -- including members of the Klan who would come out??


For someone who proclaims you're willing to "take a stand" I sure dont see it against the racists and loons; In fact, you seem to advocate an acceptance of ANY message so long as it backs your position...

and you really dont see the problem with that??

[light-over-me.livejournal.com]

You know, Tea Party people are telling off the fringe crackpops when they show up... unfortunately, you're probably gonna have to look at fox news or listen to talk radio or scour blogs to hear about it, because it hasn't gotten much attention. Many Party goers have chosen to react to the bad signs, by simply bringing their own counter signs to show that isn't what they stand for. I remember there was a guy at the recent Boston event who had such a questionable sign. Another tea party member in the crowd responded by walking over and holding up his counter "I'm not a racist" sign and stood next to him.

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

Where on Fox News has this been shown...

The assumption is that Fox would be campaigning vigorously to show the truth....so where is it?

[light-over-me.livejournal.com]

I don't have access to youtube at the moment, but I have seen interviews taking place with tea party supporters decrying racism or violence and stating that's not what they are about (this was shortly after the accusations of the N word being used at the Capitol). And on talk radio, callers have called in and spoken out about it, and so have the hosts themselves-- as a conservative to a conservative, they have said that kind of thing isn't acceptable behavior, and only muddies our message.

And why is the assumption that fox would be campaigning vigorously on this? They have done some segments on whether or not the tea party was getting a bad rep, where they have had some interviews... but I don't see them as exactly "campaigning" other than feeding off controversy because it makes entertaining news.

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

I look forward to the multiple articles you will present to show this...

But since people on the Right complain Fox is the only outlet to tell the "truth", then I'd expect a vigorous campaign of Tea Partiers disavowing the racists to show the "truth" that the rest of the media has been showing...

[light-over-me.livejournal.com]

I have posted links, they typically always go ignored and no one reads them. I've gone through this over and over, if not in this community, in the other(s). 99% of the time if someone believes the Tea Party is racist, their opinion is not budging and they have already made up their mind. If you're truly interested (and not just interested in trying to discredit me) I'm sure you have a TV and a radio and can find some conservative talk programs. Tune in sometime and listen to what actually gets said. Stop listening to the talking points and listen to what the people are actually saying.

But since people on the Right complain Fox is the only outlet to tell the "truth", then I'd expect a vigorous campaign of Tea Partiers disavowing the racists to show the "truth" that the rest of the media has been showing...

You're overstating Fox's role in things. There is not a massive campaign, because it isn't a massive problem. And furthermore, many feel this is exactly what people on the Left want to see happen--to make it a public discussion about race, etc, in order to distract away from the issues. Also, the Left has had some very different ideas on what exactly constitutes "racism". In my estimation, you have been successful. The more time we sit here constantly defending ourselves from attack and going back and forth with accusations, the more the message gets lost and ignored.

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

You dont have to "defend" yourelf....you just have to disavow the morons with the racist signs and slogans.


and for something that isn't a "massive problem" -- there SURE are a lot of photos and articles out there showing otherwise; So again, if you dont go out of your way to disavow the loons WHO CLAIM YOU, then it's noone's fault but your own if you get associated with the loons.


The message is lost NOT by the Left asking about the loons, but by the loons who claim you and are NOT disavowed.


Consistently disavow the loons (which all groups have to do) and it would be more credible to complain about "distraction"...