Bigotry at the Tea Party Protest

[readherring.livejournal.com]

Given some of the discussions generated from my last post, I wanted to share with you one last picture from the April 15 Tea Party protest.

But first, I wanted to thank everyone for all of the positive comments. I was trying very hard to be open minded and fair, and I am genuinely happy that people found my post to be so. I am even more happy that people from "both sides" liked it for that reason. This is an incredibly positive political sentiment - that we have a common preference for fair and balanced presentation. It gives me some hope that this hyper-polarized climate might collapse one day.

I also wanted to apologize for not being on line much after posting - I'm on limited internet these days.

Anyway, I hope this doesn't destroy the fair and balanced vibes, but a lot of the commenters believed that the Tea Party is a bigoted movement. Not only do I insist that this is wrong, but I also believe that making this wrongful accusation needlessly pushes Tea Partiers and their liberal counterparts further away from ever listening to each other, or making any compromise. I therefore wish that I could say that I saw no evidence of bigotry at the Tea Party, but I can't. Here's the last picture:



This is one of the counter-protesters. Her shirt reads "F*ck your God". I didn't intentionally leave this out of the original post because I was embarrassed by it, although I am embarrassed by it. I only left it out because in choosing from my hundred photos to post, this one was just va poor quality shot.

I'm not trying to make liberals look bad with this picture. I'm just trying to show that while there are people with ugly beliefs on both sides, these ugly beliefs don't define those sides. The Anti-Tea-Party movement (or Coffee Party, or whatever) isn't an anti religion movement, even if some members of the Atheist Takfiri show up in the crowd. The same goes for racists (of which I saw none) or anti-abortionists (of which I saw the nutter truck driver - his rear billboard was all about fetuses) who show up for an anti-tax movement. The movement isn't about those other things, even if some of the participants go way off message.

Sorry if this post doesn't offer much new information over the last one, but given that there was such a strong belief in Tea Party racism in the first set of comments, I felt that I had done everyone a disservice by leaving this picture out.

Comments

[paft.livejournal.com]

MvL:I don't think so. I couldn't care less if someone doesn't believe in a higher power. That's their perogative, and I've actually found that to be the attitude of most Christians (or Wiccans or Buddhists or any other religion) that I've encountered in my lifetime.

Then I must assume you have not encountered many Christian evangelicals -- or for that matter, many Catholics.

mvl: Probably the only people who care about the eternal souls of others are the ones looking for converts and they ARE attacked by Atheists and called stupid and illogical and all sorts of colorful names.

Sure, there are atheists who do this, but the fact is, most atheists just politely blow off the evangelicals, just like other nonChristians do. Keep in mind, atheists have been known to face discrimination and outright harassment for being atheists, so they're often not inclined to be vocal about their beliefs. And most atheists aren't out to convert anyone to atheism. You don't, as a rule, have atheists going door to door carrying tracts.

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

Then I must assume you have not encountered many Christian evangelicals -- or for that matter, many Catholics.
My future father-in-law is a minister and I know several Catholics. However, I personally don't believe in organized religion, so I don't go to church. I have in the past and have never seen people try to force religion on to people. I have, however, seen Atheists (more often than not) laugh at Christians and their beliefs.

You don't, as a rule, have atheists going door to door carrying tracts.
Nor do most Christians. That's left to Jehova's Witnesses and Mormons. Your holy-roller churches usually leave tracts hidden on shelves, in magazines, or in restrooms at stores...and I generally throw them in the garbage.

[paft.livejournal.com]

m: My future father-in-law is a minister and I know several Catholics.

And they weren't interested in converting people? Odd. Witnessing to the unsaved is actually a tenet of most Christian religions.

M: You don't, as a rule, have atheists going door to door carrying tracts. Nor do most Christians. That's left to Jehova's Witnesses and Mormons.

Who qualify as Christians.

Nor do atheists send missionaries to foreign countries to convert everyone to atheism. Nor are they in the habit of sliding tracts under car windshield wipers into magazines, etc.. Sorry, but atheism is just not an evangelical creed. Christianity is.

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

And they weren't interested in converting people? Odd. Witnessing to the unsaved is actually a tenet of most Christian religions.

There's a difference between "witnessing" and cramming the word of God so far down someone's throat they're tasting the ink. Most people know well enough that no means no, even in a spiritual sense. I think that's why people become Atheists. It's not that they don't have a belief in some form of higher power. Someone just beat them down with religion (metaphorically speaking).

[paft.livejournal.com]

Most atheists don't even "witness." Like I said, we don't consider what other people believe to be our business.

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

I never said that Atheists witness to people. You asked me about people I referred to who are Christians who don't forcefully witness to people. Honestly, do you even read what you're responding to before you post?

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Welp, I'm reading it and I agree with paft.

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

No shit! But she's bringing up a point that has nothing to do with what I posted. Agreed? I wasn't talking about Atheists witnessing to people because with no belief system, they really have nothing to witness about. They don't believe in a higher power therefore, case closed.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

they really have nothing to witness about

How about rationality? For example, my cousin believes that the earth was all made by god in one fell swoop and evolution is a lie. Christians taught him this crap and they are wrong. He feels that when people starve in Africa, its all good cause God wants it that way. He believes that Americans are god's chosen people. How fucked up is that?

As malcolm x once pointed out, if the religious kept it all between themselves and their god, no one would be the wiser.

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you think so, cause I can give you one example of someone who meets that criteria: Nate Phelps, one of the sons of Fred Phelps who left the Westboro Baptist Church. I'm assuming you've never read the speech he gave at the American Atheist Convention. It's a great read.

http://natephelps.com/10801.html

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

i don't take issue with the absurd
Hey, I simply pointed you toward knowledge. Good luck with your willfully ignorant journey through the world, my friend! ;)

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Catholics generally don't proselytize [anymore]. No, Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons are not Christians.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

"That's left to Jehova's Witnesses and Mormons.

Who qualify as Christians. "

Actually, unless they have canged their basic theology in the past 20 years, they don't. Both are theistic, but neither have Christ as a central tenant in their theologies. At their core LDS are polytheistic, but Jews consider Christians to be polytheistic, so I guess it's in the mind of the beholder.

[chipuni.livejournal.com]

Both are theistic, but neither have Christ as a central tenant in their theologies.

With all due respect, please check your sources:

What do Jehovah's Witnesses believe? (http://www.watchtower.org/e/jt/article_03.htm)

• Christ is God's Son and is inferior to Him Matt. 3:17; John 8:42; 14:28; 20:17; 1 Cor. 11:3; 15:28
  
• Christ was first of God's creations Col. 1:15; Rev. 3:14
  
• Christ died on a stake, not a cross Gal. 3:13; Acts 5:30
  
• Christ's human life was paid as a ransom for obedient humans Matt. 20:28; 1 Tim. 2:5, 6; 1 Pet. 2:24
  
• Christ's one sacrifice was sufficient Rom. 6:10; Heb. 9:25-28
  
• Christ was raised from the dead as an immortal spirit person 1 Pet. 3:18; Rom. 6:9; Rev. 1:17, 18
  
• Christ's presence is in spirit John 14:19; Matt. 24:3; 2 Cor. 5:16
  

And for the Mormons:

Jesus Christ established His church (http://www.mormon.org/mormonorg/eng/basic-beliefs/the-restoration-of-truth/jesus-christ-established-his-church)

A few hundred years before the birth of Jesus Christ, people had fallen into apostasy. When the Savior began His mortal ministry, He restored His gospel and established His Church again on the earth. He built His Church upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, He himself being the chief cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20).

Jesus Christ called twelve men to be His Apostles—including Peter, James, and John—and laid His hands on their heads to give them priesthood authority ( Matthew 10:1; John 15:16; Matthew 28:19-20). Before the Savior’s death and Resurrection, He gave His Apostles priesthood authority to teach His gospel, perform the ordinances of salvation, and continue to establish His Church in the world.

The Savior's coming fulfilled prophecy. He set a godly example and showed men what Heavenly Father was like. Yet He was rejected of men and crucified. He made the Atonement by suffering for the sins of all men. After His Resurrection, Jesus Christ guided His Apostles through revelation, making the Church of Jesus Christ a church led by God and not by men ( Acts 10; Revelation 1:1).

...

Jesus is central to both religions. They do not see Christ in the same way that mainstream Christian churches do, but the same can be said about Orthodox churches, the Coptic church, and others.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

Since it is linguistically permissible to call oneself a Christian if one follows the teachings of Jesus of Nazarith, regardless of a belief in His Divinity, on the surface I will concede the point.

On the other hand, the context I was commenting on was door knocking, and since when those 2 groups knock on your door they are not there to present the Christ.

I very much appreciate the manner in which you presented your argument, thank you.

My sources are from fairly in depth study going back to the 60s and include writings of the founders and early leaders of both sects. Honestly I have less of a problem with most Mormans and JWs I've known calling themselves Christians (altho many don't) than someone like Fred Phelps.

(edited one time)

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

Catholic laypeople are forbidden to proselytize without a supervising priest or certified missionary. Should you encounter a Catholic layperson proselytizing, notify the diocese for the parish and they will shut them down.

...or excommunicate them. Or is that what you meant by "shut them down"?

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

You have a document or something that says this? I'm curious and want to read up on it.

[paft.livejournal.com]

If that's so, it's something that's honored more in the breach than in fact.

[redheadrat.livejournal.com]

also too many people think catholic, but may have been approached by other groups

[ex-restless.livejournal.com]

lol! I'm assuming you're joking. I hope so, at least...