Because we haven't talked about Iraq enough...

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

This came up on my friend's page this morning.

followed by this .

When Rupert Hamer, the British journalist who served as the Sunday Mirror's war correspondent, was embedded with US forces in Afghanistan and was killed when an IED took out the MRAP he was traveling in, nobody seemed to give much of a shit. No general outcry, no "Those murderers!", no wailing and gnashing of teeth from blogs as different as Balko and BoingBoing.

But when a Reuters journalist is embedded with insurgents in Iraq who are approaching US armored vehicles while armed with weapons specifically designed to destroy such vehicles, and is engaged and killed in their company by a gunship crew who follows rules of engagement and directly asks for permission first, a whole bunch of people just about wet themselves in their eagerness to decry those who killed him.

Why is this?
-"Phanatic"

I have my own take behind the cut but I'm curious about what others have to say.


There is no discernible difference in my eyes, both were killed in action.

The responses to this incident reminds me of the Joker's monologue from "Dark Knight".

Nobody panics when things go "according to plan." Even if the plan is horrifying! If, tomorrow, I tell the press that a gang banger will get shot, or a truckload of soldiers will be blown up, nobody panics, it's all "part of the plan"...

...But if one of our Soldiers "The Good Guys", blows up a journalist everyone loses their freaking minds.

An american helicopter crew spotted a group of men gathering near an american convoy.

Weapons are clearly visible, 2 RPGs and a Light Machine-Gun. The standard AQ fire-team everywhere from Afghanistan to Chechnya for the last 15-20 years. Since the insurgents don't wear uniforms this armament and organization is the single best identifier.

They reported the situation and waited for permission to engage.

The enemy was defeated. Additional Insurgents attempted to extract the wounded before they could be captured but in doing so exposed themselves to American forces and were defeated as well.

This is war.

Support it, or oppose it, I won't judge.

All I ask is that you be intellectually honest about it.


Disclamer:
I am an Iraq War vet, and a helicopter crewman to boot, so this story hits a little close-to-home for me.

Edit:
In the interests of "citing sources" here is CENTCOM's official report on the incident.

Comments

[merig00.livejournal.com]

Did someone shoot a man crawling on a street? When exactly?

[paft.livejournal.com]

e: But then, I'm probably biased; after all, one of my relatives on coming across an impromptu Japanese field hospital in WW2 promptly annihilated it with his squad using Willie Petes.

Then one of your relatives is a war criminal.

[merig00.livejournal.com]

except they found 2 rpgs one under that man's body.

Watch your own tapes.

[papasha-mueller.livejournal.com]

Your sources saying there was a nearby fight, right ?
It can be the no-go reason for the ambulance to come.

[paft.livejournal.com]

e: it is not possible for me to engage in sociopathic activity.

Sure it is. There were people who oversaw Nazi concentration camps who had absolutely LOVELY relationships with their own wives and kids. Their treatment of inmates and rationalization of mass murder still qualifies as "sociopathic," even if they were not themselves clinical sociopaths.

[merig00.livejournal.com]

Geneva convention is like rules at duels. I can guarantee you if, God forbid, we have a war for survival the convention will be the first thing out of the window.

[paft.livejournal.com]

No, they shot up the van that was attempting to take him to safety, probably to a hospital. So is it your contention that he hopped up on his stretcher in the van and pointed his camera (which he somehow recovered) at the humvee down the street before the van and its occupants got the bejeezus blown out of it?

I think she's blondie.

[papasha-mueller.livejournal.com]

-

[paft.livejournal.com]

e:His CO told him job well done and that's all there was of that.

War criminals come in all ranks.

[paft.livejournal.com]

Anyone who has studied the history of the Third Reich does agree.

[merig00.livejournal.com]

No he pointed the camera from around the building at our troops. That's when he got shot.

They shot an unmarked van that was attempting to take away enemy combatants from being captured by our troops.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

That explains why corpsman regularly DID NOT advertise.

[paft.livejournal.com]

They shot up a van that was carrying away a badly wounded man.

Killing the wounded and people trying to take them to safety is NOT considered okay in wartime. In fact I can remember reading accounts in which Germans and Japanese soldiers were reviled for doing that very thing.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

My, you certainly showed some restraint.

[paft.livejournal.com]

A war crime is a war crime. Dumping white phosphorus on a field hospital definitely qualifies.

Re: Watch your own tapes.

[merig00.livejournal.com]

Have you seen the video? Saw how fast the Bradleys and humvees showed up. Who in their right mind would go into the direction of Bradley firing and 2 gunship spewing their 30mm from chainguns?

[merig00.livejournal.com]

p: While he was crawling on his belly leaving a smear of blood on the ground? I didn't see anything in his hands in that footage.

Noone was shooting him while he was crawling there. He was shot before that.

p: "Rushes in on cue?" I didn't see anything to indicate that. It happened to be there. The driver saw someone who was obviously severely injured, and stopped to do the right thing.

Did you see another live soul on those streets when camera zooms out. Noone in their right mind will go ooh i just saw two gunships spewing 30mm rounds from their chainguns.... oooh and I hear some small arms fire and Bradleys 25mm cannon! Let me go check it out what's going on!

[merig00.livejournal.com]

Helped russians to win at in two Great Patriotic Wars

[merig00.livejournal.com]

So get back into the situation. The blew away a van with men which arrived to assist insurgents.

[ryder-p-moses.livejournal.com]

Sure thing! We're not at war for survival right now, though, and ignoring the rules just whenever they get inconvenient is a great way to make any non-existential conflict into a war for survival.

[paft.livejournal.com]

p: While he was crawling on his belly leaving a smear of blood on the ground? I didn't see anything in his hands in that footage.
M: Noone was shooting him while he was crawling there. He was shot before that.

Well since that sequence is the one I've been talking about, what relevance do you imagine him earlier taking a picture of a Humvee has in this context?

m: Did you see another live soul on those streets when camera zooms out. Noone in their right mind will go ooh i just saw two gunships spewing 30mm rounds from their chainguns.... oooh and I hear some small arms fire and Bradleys 25mm cannon! Let me go check it out what's going on!

According to the surviving family members, the man who owned the van lived nearby and was taking his two children to a tutoring session. I suspect gunfire is not an uncommon sound in that area, even today. The guns had been stopped for several minutes. I can easily imagine someone thinking, okay, the guns have stopped. I can get my kids to their tutoring session now, pulling out, finding the injured man, and stopping to help him.

[paft.livejournal.com]

No, they blew away a van belonging to a local family man who was taking his two children to a tutor. He very decently stopped to help a severely injured man (who was a reporter - NOT an insurgent) and was blown away by an Apache helicopter.

Quit trying to rewrite reality.

[merig00.livejournal.com]

The Geneva Conventions state that protections must be afforded to people who “collect and care for the wounded, whether friend or foe.” The understanding here is that such people are clearly designated as noncombatants—by wearing a prominently displayed red cross, or red crescent, on their persons, for instance—or who are obviously civilians. A “positively identified” combatant who provides medical aid to someone amid fighting does not automatically lose his status as a combatant, and may still be legally killed.

[merig00.livejournal.com]

Just to clarify:

The Geneva Conventions state that protections must be afforded to people who “collect and care for the wounded, whether friend or foe.” The understanding here is that such people are clearly designated as noncombatants—by wearing a prominently displayed red cross, or red crescent, on their persons, for instance—or who are obviously civilians. A “positively identified” combatant who provides medical aid to someone amid fighting does not automatically lose his status as a combatant, and may still be legally killed.

[kardashev.livejournal.com]

I saw what appeared to be some rifles on some of the men in the first part of the video, so they were most likely insurgents. In the part where the van got plowed, I saw a man trying to aid one of those insurgents. I would not have known he was a journalist. I also saw two children in that van. I honestly might not have noticed them if they weren't pointed out. I'd be even less likely to notice them if I were there in the heat of battle(although my take on that has a caveat in that I'm not a trained soldier). It looks like a "fog of war" kind of mistake to me.

But having said that, I'd still like to see us finally wrap things up and bring the troops home from Iraq.