Mouseland...

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

The following story is appropriate for citizens (and mice) of all democracies. Please watch...

Watch on YouTube

Trouble with democracies is they don't lend themselves to electing mice very well. The trouble is the mice, after being elected, are corrupted into becoming cats themselves. Perhaps that's just evolution. (We all believe in evolution, don't we?)

Case in point are the mice ruling the mice on the tribal Reserve lands. Each Rez being somewhat unique with varying styles and degrees of self-government. In my critical opinion, I would say most tribal councils are corrupt. For example Chiefs driving brand new Chevy Avalanches every year. My opinion is shared by many native and non-natives alike, both on and off the reserve. But majority opinions don't matter in democracies, only those granted the legal authority to pass judgment does.

Comments

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

That is a sad truth, not least because it is a regrettably common phenomenon. But again, some of the most undemocratic acts in the recent US have come from majority votes....

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

Well, democracy is the worse form of gov't i know, except for all others.

yeah, Churchill

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

It's worth noting ol' Winnie believed all animals are equal when it comes to democracy but some were more equal than others.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

and it's still true.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

I think you might be confusing democracy with liberty again.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Surely rule of the people should correlate to liberty, eh?

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

Not always. Being able to vote is a liberty, but people don't always choose to give themselves liberties, and sometimes for good reason too.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

The new democrats symbol looks like an abstract star of david.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

It's the old logo. Supposed to be an abstract Maple Leaf.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

The old new democrats logo :P

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

I hate that story if for the only reason is it has no real meaning behind it other than just trying a folksy appeal to populism.

If you don't want cats in charge of gov't then don't give gov't the power to let cats abuse you. Then it really doesn't matter if there's cats or mice in power. But no, the people who talk about mouseland just want power that they can abuse themselves.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

yet it remains one of the most famous speeches in politics. Yes it appeals to popularism, but it changed the dynamics from the 2 party system to one where there was a 3rd choice. Politics is always healthier with more options.

[sgiffy.livejournal.com]

Italy might beg to differ. There is little empirical evidence to suggest that more options somehow makes democracy better. If anything having a few parties, with internal democratic systems, is what is ideal.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

Why would Italy beg to differ? What about Italy's multi-party system you don't like?

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

That it's a one-party shadow system of bribery and crime!

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

Sure, but other than that, what don't you like?

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

one party? like coalitions are one party?
As if the 2 party system is immune to bribery and crime? Or is Nixon forgiven?

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

You don't like Nixon? Good for you. The question asked, however, was what someone might have against the Italian political system. I would think the Cosa Nostra would be a big part of that.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

Actually the question was about the multi party system, not the political system in general. I agree that Italy seems to have a pretty corrupt government but I don't think that's the fault of it having multiple parties.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Right, and my point is that it isn't really a multi-party system.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

Bribery and crime are part of politics...it was the cover-up ;)

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Because the only Italian leader since Cavour to actually have a chance to run that POS that calls itself a country was one Benito Mussolini, who was no democrat? When fascism alone provides some kind of functionality, that is officially fucked up beyond all reason.

[sgiffy.livejournal.com]

They had a multi-party system with a big emphasis on the multi part. The resulting paralysis and problems led them to change it. They still have a government that collapses at the drop of a pin thanks to the need to form endless coalitions.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

Um... huh? Citation please.
Seems Italian federal elections have been spaced just about 5yr.s (maximum term length)

List of Italian federal elections...
1946, 1948, 1953, 1958, 1963, 1968, 1972, 1976, 1979, 1983, 1987, 1992, 1994, 1996, 2001, 2006, 2008
Do you need the exact day and month of these elections too? I'm hoping just the years will suffice.

The ability to call out an early election is good tool for democratic process on several fronts. Most importantly it gives the elected incentive to do good job while in office.

I've seen non-coalition majority governments fall at drop of at hat. Not sure there is any correlation here at all.

It would makes sense that coalition government would be more fragile then single party ones. To work they have to compromise to reach any sort of agreement. But the evidence from countries where coalitions are commonplace (Italy, Iceland, Denmark, etc) seems to indicte they work rather well.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

The problem really is that the cats own all the media outlets and use them to call everyone else cats.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Nope, not everyone; their candidates (that is: Sarah Palin on Fox) is a mouse. Or so they say; she's really wearing a very poor mouse costume that most, but sadly not all, mice can recognize as just a costume.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

Well yes, everyone else, never their own.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

As I work my way through The Federalist Papers it occurs to me to note, and may be significantly important to say, that we (I as an American, and you as a Canadian[i think]) do not live in a democracy.

We live in a Republic.

A democratic Republic, but that is *not* a democracy and perhaps we could all use some clarification on why one was chosen at the time of our nations beginning instead of the other...

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Oh, and I totally expected Mr. Sutherland to temporarily transform into Jack Bauer and kick some ass/interrogate a terrorist.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

It is worth noting that Keifer, having the burden of his grandfather's incredible leftist legacy, has ensured that written into the scripts the interrogation never works. Always, the intell gathered from interrogation is erroneous and causes them to go on wild goose chases. Meanwhile, the bad guys who actually know what's going on, don't talk.

BTW I watched Lost Boys; (part 2) the Tribe. It sucked so incredibly bad... but somehow I did manage to stay awake until the closing credits. Keifer was not in it.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

He was good in Lost Boys, but my favorite part of his was in Dark City because it really displayed his acting diversity.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

heh, now if only he could modify that voice of his; gets a bit much. but yeah, Dark City was good and pre-dates the Matrix but raises the same philosophical "how do you know?" sorts of questions.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Wait, what? I mean, I only saw the first season of 24, and then 3 episodes of the second season, and then all but the last few of the most recent season--and his interrogation works--or so I recall it. Maybe I'm confused and my brain simply recalls him getting information, but not correct info--but I don't find that out for four more episodes, so it may be easy to forget that the intel was less than ideal.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

Well, a republic is basically any government that isn't a monarchy, so a 'democratic republic' really isn't much different than just saying democracy.

What our system is though is not a direct democracy, we are a constitutional representative democracy. That means that we don't vote on things, we elect people to represent us, and also we have a constitution that is an equal part of the government as interpreted by the courts.

Nowadays being a republic isn't that big of a deal, many places are at least in name a republic (though some like the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is not in practice a republic), but when the founding fathers got together, it was sort of a big deal that they were making a republic (i.e. not a monarchy like they were rebelling from), like it was a big thing Washington did not want to be king.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

As we see with those polls regarding "gays&lesbians in the military" and "homosexuals in the military" words have power and we should recognize that we are not in a democracy--a democracy *is* a direct democracy. Anything else includes democratic elements, but is not a democracy; we are a democratic republic and this means that I do not get to vote on laws; merely on the representatives who do vote for laws.

This is an important difference and I can think of a number of legal matters that would have turned out differently if we were a democracy and not a republic.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

In my opinon USA is infinitely more directly democratic then Canada is. I mean you guys seem to get to vote on everything... Prop 8 in California for example. You seem to vote on taxes and bridges and dog catchers and sheriffs. Not that I think all these things should be left to democracy... or the democratic process.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Depends on the state, and the county, and the city.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

It doesn't matter on the province, county, city here.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

That's not what republic means. What you are describing is a representative democracy.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

"A republic, by which I mean a government in which the scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect, and promises the cure for which we are seeking. Let us examine the points in which it varies from pure democracy, and we shall comprehend both the nature of the cure and the efficacy which it must derive from the Union.

The two great points of difference between a democracy and a republic are: first, the delegation of the government, in the latter, to a small number of citizens elected by the rest; secondly, the greater number of citizens, and greater sphere of country, over which the latter may be extended."

Federalist Paper #10 (so written by James Madison)

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

Madison's definition quoted is not the common definition defined by most dictionary's. His requires context.

If I may edit...
The two great points of difference between a democracy and (this new) a republic are: first, the delegation of the government, in the latter, to a small number of citizens elected by the rest; secondly, the greater number of citizens, and greater sphere of country, over which the latter may be extended."

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

That's still not the standard usage of the term. He's describing representative democracy. The term has been around for a very long time, and been used in many different ways, but the defining characteristic is public representation of one form or another.

According to the wiki, Machiavelli was actually one of the first to use the term, and he specifically used it as the second type of government as opposed to monarchy, and as a government ruled by the people.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

I think Libya is still the only direct democracy in the world. Yes it is a totalitarian state on the national level, but they hold weekly local "town-hall" meeting to discus and vote on local issues.

I would argue that USA is indeed a democracy and being a Republic adds nothing to quantify this fact. Republic simply defines that you have rejected a monarchy. USA has a representative democracy and pretty unique in the world (although I don't know for sure if it's ever been emulated anywhere else). It is not based on Napoleonic or Westminster system... well, not closely anyways.

Canada was a Dominion until 1982 when our Constitution was brought home from England. We are now simply the Country of Canada. We do closely follow the Westminster Parliamentary system of representative democracy (with sole exception of Napoleonic law being practised in Quebec).

But perhaps I'm not defining democracy the same as you are. I'm looking it up in my Funk & Wagnalls

Sarah Palin...

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

... is no cat. She's a canine who masquerades as a mouse.

The best government is the one implemented by the best people.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

That's dumb.

In times of war, the commander in chief may do whatever is necessary and proper to maintain the union.

Or would you like to remove that notion?

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

Traitors. Pretty strong words from a nation of traitors. While you might think the war of 1776 was fought for liberty, the loyalists understood you were abandoning obligations.

The weakest government...

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

... is one that hasn't the power to do so. A better government has the power, but only executes it justly. Come to think of it, with the power to execute such a violation, the organization probably would not be called a government by anyone. It's just a talk shop.

[star-white.livejournal.com]

I loved it.