It takes one to know one
11/3/18 19:05![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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talkpoliticshttps://cdni.rt.com/files/2018.03/article/5a9b13e3dda4c81a4e8b4576.jpg
If someone is still wondering how come the US has so easily decided that Russian internet trolls have tried to influence the outcome of the 2016 presidential election, the answer is, it takes one to know one.
Just three years after Allende was democratically elected president in the 70s, he was deposed in a bloody coup, and power went into the hands of the military junta of Pinochet. It has now been proven beyond and doubt that the CIA was behind the whole drama. In fact, if the CIA plan had worked as intended, Allende wouldn't have even been elected in the first place. Still, they did achieve their final goal, using many methods to infiltrate Chilean politics.
Now Mueller's investigation into the Russian involvement in the 2016 election that supposedly helped Trump rise to power, is a constant subject in the media. So last month Mueller charged 13 Russians with illicitly influencing the result of the election via the social networks and developing a subversive political activity in the US.
Except, these Russian attempts to influence the democratic process in the US are happening after decades of US meddling in dozens of foreign countries. "If you ask an intelligence officer, did the Russians break the rules or do something bizarre, the answer is no, not at all," a retired CIA chief of Russian operations recently said. Indeed, the US has been doing the exact same thing that these Russians are now being accused in, ever since the 1947 - and much worse. The CIA methods have varied from propaganda to spreading disinformation ("fake news", as it's now called), and paying the media in the targeted countries to disseminate it.
There's now a whole database about US meddling in foreign elections for decades. For the period 1946-2000, the US has been involved in at least 81 such cases - and that doesn't even include their support for un-democratic military coups in various countries, like Chile. In 51 out of those 81 cases, the US-preferred candidate won.
In Nicaragua for example, the CIA spread fake news in 1990 about Daniel Ortega, implicating him in corruption. He lost the election (but then came back to win in 2007 and 2016). When Milosevic tried to win re-election in the remnants of post-war Yugoslavia, the US put an obstacle in front of him, Vojislav Kostunica. The latter won the election.
As is evident from the database, about 1/3 of all US interference in foreign elections has been done openly, and the remaining 2/3 covertly, which means the voters had been secretly manipulated from a foreign power. There was no Internet at the time, nor social networks. Instead, the CIA mostly relied on heavy economic support for the pro-US candidates and parties, sending them consultants to run their election campaigns. They used a whole array of dirty tricks, like damaging intel leaks, fake news, etc.
In post-WW2 Italy, where the situation was very dire, and Russia was trying to increase its influence, the CIA started a huge campaign in favor of the Christian Democrats, using the media to spread real and/or fake sex scandals about the leftist candidates, and washing their preferred candidates with money. The CIA had "bags of money" at their disposal, which they gave to their preferred politicians and funded pro-US propaganda. The Christian Democrats thus came to dominate that period in Italian politics.
The examples are many. The Russians did the same, and they're certainly trying to do it wherever an opportunity comes by. I don't know if there's an equivalence between America and Russia in the election-meddling department, but my point is, getting so outraged by Russian interference in US politics comes across as a bit disingenuous, given the US history of un-democratic actions in foreign countries throughout the last 60+ years.
https://i2.offnews.bg//events/2018/03/05/676109/phpruohoo_559x*.jpg
As soon as I saw the picture of our almost kneeling vice president before the Russian Patriarch Cyril, it occurred to me that I should try to educate our leaders on the subject. At first I thought of starting with the question, why do they feel compelled to kneel whenever they meet a Russian leader? But I quickly changed my mind. Too much controversy. Our people have often been divided on the subject of Russia, they're generally divided into Russophiles and Russophobes and there's always a lot of quarrelling about these things. Let them bark against Russia, or lick Russia's ass all they want, or kneel, or clench a fist. Let them stutter in broken Russian while the foreign Patriarch is gently patting them on the head and offering his ring for a kiss. Don't really care. He'll never be fully content. You wonder why? Now THIS is the central question that I want to address.
If someone is still wondering how come the US has so easily decided that Russian internet trolls have tried to influence the outcome of the 2016 presidential election, the answer is, it takes one to know one.
Just three years after Allende was democratically elected president in the 70s, he was deposed in a bloody coup, and power went into the hands of the military junta of Pinochet. It has now been proven beyond and doubt that the CIA was behind the whole drama. In fact, if the CIA plan had worked as intended, Allende wouldn't have even been elected in the first place. Still, they did achieve their final goal, using many methods to infiltrate Chilean politics.
Now Mueller's investigation into the Russian involvement in the 2016 election that supposedly helped Trump rise to power, is a constant subject in the media. So last month Mueller charged 13 Russians with illicitly influencing the result of the election via the social networks and developing a subversive political activity in the US.
Except, these Russian attempts to influence the democratic process in the US are happening after decades of US meddling in dozens of foreign countries. "If you ask an intelligence officer, did the Russians break the rules or do something bizarre, the answer is no, not at all," a retired CIA chief of Russian operations recently said. Indeed, the US has been doing the exact same thing that these Russians are now being accused in, ever since the 1947 - and much worse. The CIA methods have varied from propaganda to spreading disinformation ("fake news", as it's now called), and paying the media in the targeted countries to disseminate it.
There's now a whole database about US meddling in foreign elections for decades. For the period 1946-2000, the US has been involved in at least 81 such cases - and that doesn't even include their support for un-democratic military coups in various countries, like Chile. In 51 out of those 81 cases, the US-preferred candidate won.
In Nicaragua for example, the CIA spread fake news in 1990 about Daniel Ortega, implicating him in corruption. He lost the election (but then came back to win in 2007 and 2016). When Milosevic tried to win re-election in the remnants of post-war Yugoslavia, the US put an obstacle in front of him, Vojislav Kostunica. The latter won the election.
As is evident from the database, about 1/3 of all US interference in foreign elections has been done openly, and the remaining 2/3 covertly, which means the voters had been secretly manipulated from a foreign power. There was no Internet at the time, nor social networks. Instead, the CIA mostly relied on heavy economic support for the pro-US candidates and parties, sending them consultants to run their election campaigns. They used a whole array of dirty tricks, like damaging intel leaks, fake news, etc.
In post-WW2 Italy, where the situation was very dire, and Russia was trying to increase its influence, the CIA started a huge campaign in favor of the Christian Democrats, using the media to spread real and/or fake sex scandals about the leftist candidates, and washing their preferred candidates with money. The CIA had "bags of money" at their disposal, which they gave to their preferred politicians and funded pro-US propaganda. The Christian Democrats thus came to dominate that period in Italian politics.
The examples are many. The Russians did the same, and they're certainly trying to do it wherever an opportunity comes by. I don't know if there's an equivalence between America and Russia in the election-meddling department, but my point is, getting so outraged by Russian interference in US politics comes across as a bit disingenuous, given the US history of un-democratic actions in foreign countries throughout the last 60+ years.
https://i2.offnews.bg//events/2018/03/05/676109/phpruohoo_559x*.jpg
As soon as I saw the picture of our almost kneeling vice president before the Russian Patriarch Cyril, it occurred to me that I should try to educate our leaders on the subject. At first I thought of starting with the question, why do they feel compelled to kneel whenever they meet a Russian leader? But I quickly changed my mind. Too much controversy. Our people have often been divided on the subject of Russia, they're generally divided into Russophiles and Russophobes and there's always a lot of quarrelling about these things. Let them bark against Russia, or lick Russia's ass all they want, or kneel, or clench a fist. Let them stutter in broken Russian while the foreign Patriarch is gently patting them on the head and offering his ring for a kiss. Don't really care. He'll never be fully content. You wonder why? Now THIS is the central question that I want to address.
(no subject)
Date: 11/3/18 18:29 (UTC)A significant point here is that when you flout the diplomatic conventions, those conventions may well be torn up when dealing with you. Most nations, including the UK, try to abide by them (hence the Julian Assange problem). Uncle Vlad has selectively ignored the parts of the general diplomatic conventions he wanted to for his and his nations perceived benefit. Now we have to see if the international community values its conventions.
State sanctioned assassination directed to the heart of another nation isn't really something anyone wants to set a modern precedent over. Such a shame.
(no subject)
Date: 11/3/18 18:36 (UTC)Thinking about it, what we are complaining about is they got the drop on us while we were high-fiving ourselves in some stupid dudebro celebration of the victory of capitalism.
Soddit. It's Uncle Vlad's victory. Let him have it. We have other long-term games to play of greater importance.
(no subject)
Date: 12/3/18 00:17 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 12/3/18 16:40 (UTC)First you make sure your ducks are not in a row, so to speak. When it comes to getting the rest of the world to take action, to mix my natural metaphors, it's a herding cats meme with block capital captions...
Honestly now, who is going to do anything? Trump? May? Merkel?
(no subject)
Date: 11/3/18 18:41 (UTC)Of course, maybe it was just a coincidence and Russia wasn't involved. However, it's pretty easy to see why such things should be frowned upon between nuclear armed folks, if it does turn out that Mr. Putin had something to do with this.
(no subject)
Date: 11/3/18 18:33 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 11/3/18 20:08 (UTC)What's really getting people is whether the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians. This would be pretty outrageous. If this is the case, the Russians were just doing their job very well. The USians involved of course should be going to jail if it can be proved.
(no subject)
Date: 11/3/18 20:28 (UTC)The money and time spent to influence (what I assume were mostly) coin-flip elections, and we still only got coin-flip results?
(no subject)
Date: 11/3/18 21:32 (UTC)