Oh wow.

[luzribeiro]

If you think that mansplaining about "not assault weapons" and "assault weapons" in light of today's events in Las Vegas is going to be helpful in discussing the huge gun violence problem the USA has, you are the problem.

50+ dead, 400+ taken to hospitals.

Save us all the wisdom you need to share about the bullshit you believe.

This is how these guys handle everything - by dragging us out into the weeds of the mansplains rather than actually addressing the issues.

Don't be a dick.

Comments

[airiefairie]

How is this prudence? The per capita death rate from firearms in the US is not just the highest in the world, it's several times higher than the next in the ranking. How do you explain that? And more importantly, how do you change it? Or are you saying this situation is OK? How is this prudent?

Yes, "do something". You said it yourself - we're not the experts in US law here. You seem to be. Which is why I do not presume to have a better proposal than you. You first. Go ahead, propose... "something".

Recognising a problem as a problem is the first step. And you don't seem willing to do even that.

[policraticus]

US is not just the highest in the world, it's several times higher than the next in the ranking

It is hard to take you seriously when you are so wrong on the facts. The US ranks around 15th to 20th depending on how you calculate it. Since 2/3rds of firearms deaths in the US are suicides, you'd be better off arguing for more suicide prevention. Not for nothing, the US does have a staggering number of guns, far, far more than any other country. We have so many more it calls into question, for me, why our rate of gun violence and death isn't far higher. If guns are the cause of this problem, then why doesn't the exponential increase in gun ownership track with an increase in gun violence. We have never had more guns per capita in the US than we do now, and the percentage seems to be growing every year. And yet, gun violence and violent crime in general is at some of its lowest rates in a generation, and seems to keep falling. How do we reconcile this?

Look, don't take my word for it. Nate Silver's crew did a deep dive on US firearm fatalities and the effect of increased gun control on gun violence. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/gun-deaths-mass-shootings/

[airiefairie]

Did you even read what you're citing?

"The US ranks around 15th to 20th depending on how you calculate it."

Yes, how do YOU calculate it? Because the way I see it, the US is grouped together with such nice places like Honduras, Venezuela, Swaziland, Colombia and South Africa.

Which other developed nation comes even close to those gun-related fatality rates, pray tell?

And you are telling me about being taken seriously?

I'm sick and tired of people like yourself telling me how this problem is not really a problem.

[policraticus]

Wait, are you saying only rich, white, Eurocentric countries count as countries? That only those people count as people who count?

Who should be taken seriously now?

[airiefairie]

If you're willing to rank yourself among the Third World, by all means, be my guest. But then you'd relinquish your moral high ground to lecture people about "freedom and democracy". So which is it?

Do you think someone priding themselves about ranking above Colombia and Afghanistan in terms of violence levels should be taken seriously? But honestly.

[garote]

"In terms of violence levels" is a completely different kettle of fish.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-06-27/map-here-are-countries-worlds-highest-murder-rates

The story told there is, the US has more gun crime, but isn't a much more violent place in general.

On the other hand, the scale on that chart you're looking at bottoms out at 4.9, which is not informative. The city of New York alone has 8.5 million people living in it, and a murder rate of 3.9 per 100,000 (2016). Compare that to London, with 8.7 million people and a murder rate of 1.3 per 100,000 (2015).

In relative terms, the murder rate in New York is TRIPLE that of London. In absolute terms, that's not much of a difference. Approximately a 0.0039% chance versus a 0.0012% chance of being murdered in a given year.

That is a not exactly convincing evidence that the US is a fundamentally different place in terms of violence.

[airiefairie]

A three times more likeliness to be killed is not much of a difference.

Ehm... I think I'm gonna slowly waddle away from this debate. It is evident that no one is going to change anyone's opinion, as we are approaching it from entirely different premises.

[garote]

We might be.

I do not own a gun, and will never own one. I think they are, on balance, a terrible thing for a private citizen to own. I find American culture's fixation on guns to be tiresome, and senseless. I'm all for tightening the noose around ownership of any firearm that isn't purpose-built to hunt game, and I'm sure you know my position on gun manufacturing by now.

So, you and I are probably not that different in terms of the direction we'd like things to go.