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talkpoliticsWell, seems like the Ugandan constitutional court has just annulled a tough gay law that had been adopted earlier this year, and caused quite an uproar in the freedom-loving West. Albeit the ruling wasn't justified on the fact that this law is cruel and immoral in principle - instead, it was merely brought down due to a stated technicality ("[The Constitutional Court] ruled that the bill was passed by MPs in December without the requisite quorum and was therefore illegal"). So, seems like they're not saying anything about the constitutionality of the human rights abuse that is the law in question, just that it wasn't adopted via the proper procedure. That's nice, you know...
Some have already jubilantly asked the rhetoric question whether this doesn't constitute a rare moment of sanity, or just a temporary setback for an otherwise consistently violent and stunningly reactionary anti-gay agenda, which is sure to hit back with a vengeance pretty soon.
That said, my coming across the following documentary happens to be just timely:
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Essentially, it argues what most of us who've been paying at least some attention to the issue, might've realized for quite a while. Namely, it's not just that "Ugandans be crazy" that's causing all this anti-gay insanity over there. There are outside factors profoundly affecting public attitude to LGBTs in Uganda. Curiously, those are factors originating in the US. A group of fundamentalist Christian missionaries have been going to Uganda to spread the word of God and preach their grotesque interpretation of the Gospel. And that's not just the plot of the Broadway hit musical The Book of Mormon, it's the actual reality in Uganda today. In result, the anti-gay fervor in the country has been blown out of control, and the law that essentially makes homosexuality illegal and punishable by death, has in fact been brought about largely thanks to the direct influence and support of these American evangelicals.
In the meantime, rather than taking a stance on the issue that his own compatriots have helped create, Obama may now be preparing to dispense his next awesome lecture on human rights upon all those backward African leaders, come their next meeting. And possibly woo them to turn their back on China for no reason whatsoever. Because, you know, democracy.
Some have already jubilantly asked the rhetoric question whether this doesn't constitute a rare moment of sanity, or just a temporary setback for an otherwise consistently violent and stunningly reactionary anti-gay agenda, which is sure to hit back with a vengeance pretty soon.
That said, my coming across the following documentary happens to be just timely:
[Error: unknown template video]
Essentially, it argues what most of us who've been paying at least some attention to the issue, might've realized for quite a while. Namely, it's not just that "Ugandans be crazy" that's causing all this anti-gay insanity over there. There are outside factors profoundly affecting public attitude to LGBTs in Uganda. Curiously, those are factors originating in the US. A group of fundamentalist Christian missionaries have been going to Uganda to spread the word of God and preach their grotesque interpretation of the Gospel. And that's not just the plot of the Broadway hit musical The Book of Mormon, it's the actual reality in Uganda today. In result, the anti-gay fervor in the country has been blown out of control, and the law that essentially makes homosexuality illegal and punishable by death, has in fact been brought about largely thanks to the direct influence and support of these American evangelicals.
In the meantime, rather than taking a stance on the issue that his own compatriots have helped create, Obama may now be preparing to dispense his next awesome lecture on human rights upon all those backward African leaders, come their next meeting. And possibly woo them to turn their back on China for no reason whatsoever. Because, you know, democracy.
(no subject)
Date: 3/8/14 20:27 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 3/8/14 21:36 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 3/8/14 22:13 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 4/8/14 00:30 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 8/8/14 00:29 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 3/8/14 21:52 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 3/8/14 22:20 (UTC)Here is a clip from an interview Mr. Frey conducted on camera with Russian lawmaker Vitaly Milonov:
When Frey requested permission to film in Turkey for the documentary, the government turned him down. once they were told the nature of the production.
(no subject)
Date: 4/8/14 01:22 (UTC)Turkey is harsh.
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/06/evolution-comes-under-fire-in-turkeys-higher-education/258258/
(no subject)
Date: 5/8/14 09:06 (UTC)The Fry family have been part of the British cultural landscape for many generations, and one of his rellies held all sorts of sporting records, and others were known as great philanthropists.
(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 20:43 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 4/8/14 05:26 (UTC)Those "major" actions include:
- Cutting back support for the Inter-Religious Council of Uganda, albeit, fortunately, keeping the funding for the group's HIV/AIDS prevention office. Total sting: $6.4.
- Suspending a planned study between the Uganda University and the Center for Disease Control.
- Cutting the funding for tourism programs promoting Uganda. Total sting: $3 million.
So that's what "major" action constitutes. Stinging Uganda with about $ 10 million.
(no subject)
Date: 4/8/14 21:36 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 5/8/14 17:05 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 00:56 (UTC)Expecting anything more than what we've already seen would seem to run counter to that theory. After all, what right does the US have to force it's idea of morality on Uganda?
(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 05:55 (UTC)Do you not notice the double standard that you're applying here?
(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 07:52 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 08:35 (UTC)No, you don't get to arbitrarily define what Pax Americana constitutes. In the real world, it includes every piece of influence that America projects abroad, be it through official, government channels, or through conveniently vaguely defined "private" entities.
So stop hiding behind these excuses and face the fact that America/Americans have hugely contributed to creating yet another mess in the so called Third World. And if responsibility really counted for anything in actions as opposed to mere words these days, it would've been American that would've led the way toward solving the problem they created.
(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 09:04 (UTC)In the meantime, don't you see how hypocritical you are being? You want the US out of the third world, but if the US is out of the third world it aint doing shit for gays in Uganda.
Likewise, how the hell do you intend to stop people from trying to influence Ugandans on their own time? Sure the president could issue a prohibition on travel but that is easily circumvented. Likewise he could try to outlaw contact with Ugandans but that would get shot down on 1st Amendment grounds before the ink was even dry.
(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 09:12 (UTC)Given the root cause of the gays' predicament in Uganda, I'd only say that this statement is so full of bullshit that it doesn't even warrant a proper response.
Perhaps the president could start with taming his own crazy flock, before presuming to lecture Africans about anything. That would be some start.
I don't know about hypocritical, but some moral consistency would've been nice in cases like these. And again, no, "these are just private entities exercising their freedoms" is bullshit. This is your mess.
(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 10:08 (UTC)Noted, but the "it's none of America's business" is a position adopted for the sake of argument. Personally I'm to old fashioned to by into the left's post-modern "relative morality" bullshit.
Given the root cause of the gays' predicament in Uganda...
And what cause is that? do you really think that everything was just peachy until those evil Mormons showed up to ruin everything?
Perhaps the president could start with taming his own crazy flock, before presuming to lecture Africans about anything. That would be some start.
Point conceded.
I don't know about hypocritical, but some moral consistency would've been nice...
Yes consistency would be nice, Remember I was the one being called racist, imperialistic, misogynistic, and many things much nastier for saying that we (the US) should be doing more to protect the lives and rights of Women, Gays, and religious minorities in the Arab world and Africa. Lesson learned.
Furthermore, if it is your position is that the US is the root cause of Uganda's problems how can you believe that any further US involvement will not result in an even bigger mess?
(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 11:33 (UTC)I'm not really interested in entertaining positions that are solely adopted for the sake of argument. When you're prepared to discuss matters in good faith, please make sure to notify me, so we could proceed in a more constructive manner.
(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 11:44 (UTC)Oh, I'm sure America can do some things just right - if it really wanted to.
(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 12:29 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 12:31 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 12:36 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 14:32 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 08:38 (UTC)You can't both eat the cake and have it.
(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 08:55 (UTC)How can anyone bitch about the US getting too involved in the third world only to turn around and complain that the US is not involved enough? It's not me who's trying to have it both ways here.
(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 09:07 (UTC)The one who creates a mess, is responsible for at least helping to fix it. That's at least how a responsible government/group/organization/nation/entity/whatever should be acting. This applies to both the Uganda case and to the situation at your southern border. Need I explain to you how the US has hugely contributed, in whatever form you like to define, to both the refugee situation in Central America, the drugs-for-arms trade between Afghanistan and Europe, and for the religious fundamentalism situation in Uganda?
(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 09:55 (UTC)How do you figure?
If going to Uganda and forcing one set of morals on them is wrong so is forcing some other set of morals on them.
Likwise, if I concede luzribeiro's point that this whole mess both in Uganda and on our the border is mostly if not entirely of the US's making how am I supposed to believe that anything US does to intervene will not make the situation 10 times worse?
As for the border thing...
I'm on record as wanting to end the war on drugs an demilitarize the police force. apparently that makes me an extremist or something.
(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 11:25 (UTC)What you think of the war on drugs is irrelevant to the issue that we're discussing here, but good for you.
(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 12:28 (UTC)He you mentioned the south and central american drug cartels as one of our messes. If it weren't for the US war on drugs they'd be just another band of banana republic revolutionaries hiding in the jungels.
(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 12:31 (UTC)Not good enough for me.
(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 12:37 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 11:45 (UTC)Our government almost budged under the pressure. Almost. But the people started some huge protests, so Borisov eventually decided to backpedal.
(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 22:14 (UTC)Pretty easily, if they think we have a responsibility to clean up the messes we create by getting too involved—we stay involved long enough to undo what we did, then we stop.
(no subject)
Date: 5/8/14 09:01 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 5/8/14 13:43 (UTC)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sacrifice_in_Uganda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sacrifice_in_Uganda)
And that is really old-fashioned evil.
I mean, as a nation, the UK is only just coming to terms with decades of systematic child-abuse by politicians and celebrities, so many of us may be so disgusted with humanity that we're actually spoiling for any fight, and with absolutely anyone: but even so, and given that some of us may be in danger of over-reacting, I want to stop this happening with "extreme prejudice" as the euphemism used to be. But I'd settle for it just to stop.
(no subject)
Date: 6/8/14 20:52 (UTC)Do you think there's an opposite extreme, though, an equally "colonialist" mindset that refuses to assign any responsibility to the people (or at least government) or Uganda? Isn't the idea that they're just innocent "savages" so easily swayed by outside voices equally as insulting, paternalistic, and colonialistic as the idea that they're brutal "savages"? Aren't we outright rejecting the concept of a people's agency either way? Is there room in our blame category for Scott Lively AND the homophobes AND the corrupt government over there as well?
*(seriously, it's not like people like Lively are fans of Obama anyway. That crowd would never vote for him. What would it hurt him to call them out? If he wants to talk about human rights, he should absolutely address that.)
(no subject)
Date: 7/8/14 08:04 (UTC)And then there's the residual animistic witchcraft in some of these nations.
Somehow we have to convince folk to leave the ancient anti-gay colonial legislation back in its historical context, alongside the colonial oppressors. I'm guessing that money is the best argument in this.
(no subject)
Date: 7/8/14 12:16 (UTC)Not just in Africa, either. So much of what's going on right now in the Middle East is directly attributable to British colonialism of the early 20th century, and American and Soviet proxy meddling later on.
(no subject)
Date: 7/8/14 19:41 (UTC)But still between the anti-gay stuff from one side, and the ritual child-murder on the other, there seems nothing except horror. The awful things which are our fault, we should put right, and the awful things which are nothing to do with us, we still should attempt to change.